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Unlimited Bank Weight and Skill Locks...Yes or No?
Yes 79%  79%  [ 46 ]
No 10%  10%  [ 6 ]
Yes or No to One and Not the Other 10%  10%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 58
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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:15 pm 
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Blackbeard wrote:
I'm basically proposing we keep everything from November 23rd up until Phase Two, which is when they included the ridiculous amount of lockdown additions for every house type. I think most every other player here (except Faust in spite of his own words) would agree with me.


Why would you presume this?

My stance on the cutoff date is black or white. We should be using the systems put in place before the November 23rd patch to end it there or everything during that patch and stop there if this option was the choice. The current inconsistency that exists around the cutoff date has created t2a system that has never existed. For example, we are using phase one housing and a phase two housing function. If this process is even addressed as it may after past previous comments the problem still will exist here. We are using a great numer of systems during that same patch kegs, skill locks, etc... that make it wrong. I don't care one bit if these items are removed or kept. The only concern on my part is to please choose one way or the other. Pre-November 23rd patch or stick to the November 23rd patch, pretty simple stance.

How can you argue era accuracy when you're using a portion of a patch and not the rest creating a system that never existed?

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Last edited by Faust on Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:16 pm 
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Thanks, Derrick. I'll bring my keys/keyrings inside to get used to that inaccurate convenience. :/


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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:17 pm 
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key rings like other items should likely require LOS to be used. I was not aware of this issue.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:31 am 
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Faust wrote:
How can you argue era accuracy when you're using a portion of a patch and not the rest creating a system that never existed?


I agree Faust.

The reasoning seems to be that the house phases were the incremental introduction of UO:R systems.

I just wonder whether other things which were patched in pre-23 Nov 1999, that can be linked up with a UO:R change, can be removed from the shard as well.

It's worth thinking about, because the reasoning that is applied in allowing one inconsistency should technically be able to be used to argue for allowing other inconsistencies.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:17 am 
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If something came in before the cut-off date, then it is allowed in. It seems the term "accurate" is being used incorrectly here. Phase II housing, for example, is still accurate because it occurred during T2A. Regardless:

Faust wrote:
How can you argue era accuracy when you're using a portion of a patch and not the rest creating a system that never existed?


I already explained in the OP that I agree with the decision to not include the Phase II housing system. All these housing decisions seem great.

We can see from this Publish that everything before Phase II housing is in use here though so my questions are:

1. Why are we going to remove any of these non-housing related things when they added a lot of quality to T2A.
2. If we're going to keep one of these non-housing related things from November 23rd, why aren't we going to keep all of them?

It just seems, with all due respect to the staff, flip-floppy to keep skill locks (or maker's mark) but place in a weight limit in banks since both these changes came in with the same patch.

Why one or not the other? If it's your decision to pick and choose what you will then good on you I guess. I just think you're might get a bit of rage-quiting if you nerf banks, which is something that is completely accurate.

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Last edited by Blackbeard on Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:18 am 
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yes currently you only need LoS with the door you're locking/unlocking, but not with the key ring itself. its quite useful actually, but i'm not surprised that it shouldn't be like this.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:31 am 
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MatronDeWinter wrote:
No, I'm not whining over all-locked-down houses, I am just saying that I play this game because I enjoy it. If the things I enjoy are removed, there really is no reason for me to play. I'm not a huge fan of PvP, PvM, Events, Crafting. You are probably a PvM'er, if they removed all monsters and this specifically became a PvP only server would you have any reason to play? I quit OSI not long after those changes. The only thing that extended my playing there out another year or so is the fact that there were always changes, so the possibility of finding something new to do was real. UOSA is on a path to "era-accuracy", so when/if it eventually reaches a point where the mechanics are perfectly coded, and playing a rogue is not a part of that, I really have nothing left to do.

You do realize you just talked in full circle there pretty much proving exactly what I said to be true. :|

Also, it's very rare that I PVM and I never really PVP apart from CTF, which is pretty much once a week at 6am, so I never partake in that anymore either.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:32 am 
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Yes, being able to look at your keys when you use them is something that seems like a necessary requisite. I agree completely marmalade.

How about this bank thing?

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:34 am 
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Blackbeard wrote:
Why one or not the other? If it's your decision to pick and choose what you will then good on you I guess. I just think you're might get a bit of rage-quiting if you nerf banks, which is something that is completely accurate.

This is very true. Many people rely on the bank having no weight limit. Adding one, pointlessly albeit, will cause quite a few players to leave in anger. Essentially, the plan is to remove some of the best changes OSI made to UO which actually made the game better and more enjoyable.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:37 am 
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Corbin wrote:
Blackbeard wrote:
Why one or not the other? If it's your decision to pick and choose what you will then good on you I guess. I just think you're might get a bit of rage-quiting if you nerf banks, which is something that is completely accurate.

This is very true. Many people rely on the bank having no weight limit. Adding one, pointlessly albeit, will cause quite a few players to leave in anger. Essentially, the plan is to remove some of the best changes OSI made to UO which actually made the game better and more enjoyable.


Some people think that Dex-based healing made the game better and more enjoyable too. It's sort of normative to say that any change is the "best one OSI made".

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 1:38 am 
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MatronDeWinter wrote:

Some people think that Dex-based healing made the game better and more enjoyable too. It's sort of normative to say that any change is the "best one OSI made".


Dexterity based healing is how it always was Matron. The skill was always based off that stat. If you're referring to dexterity reducing the amount of time it takes to use bandages, then you're talking about an update that comes after our target date.

Corbin wrote:
Blackbeard wrote:
Why one or not the other? If it's your decision to pick and choose what you will then good on you I guess. I just think you're might get a bit of rage-quiting if you nerf banks, which is something that is completely accurate.

This is very true. Many people rely on the bank having no weight limit. Adding one, pointlessly albeit, will cause quite a few players to leave in anger. Essentially, the plan is to remove some of the best changes OSI made to UO which actually made the game better and more enjoyable.


QFT

If you're going to remove the ability to store lots of heavy stuff in your bank, nerf skill locks so I can ruin GM Resist, make Runebooks and Kegs into valuable rares and most of all, remove maker's mark. I shouldn't be able to know who this exceptional katana was made by if we're not going to use anything from November 23rd. Otherwise, it just looks like, as Ollie stated, huge changes are being catered to select individuals, which won't ever help the shard's image in the end.

I've been playing for about a month here and I'd like to see more than 600 IPs on at once.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:43 am 
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Blackbeard wrote:
If you're going to remove the ability to store lots of heavy stuff in your bank, nerf skill locks so I can ruin GM Resist, make Runebooks and Kegs into valuable rares and most of all, remove maker's mark. I shouldn't be able to know who this exceptional katana was made by if we're not going to use anything from November 23rd. Otherwise, it just looks like, as Ollie stated, huge changes are being catered to select individuals, which won't ever help the shard's image in the end.

the patch doesn't refer to blacksmith makers mark - that existed as far back as I played UO. "In addition to Blacksmiths and Tailors – Bowcrafters, Carpenters and Tinkers will now be able to craft "exceptional" items. ". Meaning blacksmiths and tailors were already applying marks, and now other crafting skills could, too.

The part about makers mark that refers to blacksmith/tailoring is that exceptional items will show up as "an exceptional katana", "an exceptional tunic", etc, and the ability to CHOOSE whether a mark is applied. we don't have that here.

also, if you gave matron the benefit of the doubt - yes he is referring to dex based timer on healing - his post means a lot more than if you assume he's ignorant.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:05 am 
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Derrick wrote:
The most extreme and likely changes that are coming would be removal of co-owners, no locked down stackables, removal of stat locks (not skill locks), removal of party system, and the removal of the ability to lock down keys above a door on the outside steps.

The ability to lockdown keyrings on the steps of a tower, and away from the door is accurate, but the ability to lock down things high above the steps is a bug I created.

The bank weight limit should also be applied, but not until I can get around to fixing the gold weight and item count exemption on sub-containers of banks.



I have a hard time understanding why these removals would be at all desirable to anyone.

Also, does anyone actually remember how the huge lockdown system worked? Leaving crap all over your house became unnecessary. I understand the fear, but all that it truly removed was house looting.

Also, thanks for the props blackbeard. Was wondering if anyone actually read that post, as I have been too busy in game to mess around on the forums much.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:52 am 
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Ollie wrote:
I have a hard time understanding why these removals would be at all desirable to anyone.

Also, does anyone actually remember how the huge lockdown system worked? Leaving crap all over your house became unnecessary. I understand the fear, but all that it truly removed was house looting.

Also, thanks for the props blackbeard. Was wondering if anyone actually read that post, as I have been too busy in game to mess around on the forums much.

I think you miss the purpose of the shard, which is to replicate '99 as accurately as possible - so if something "was", then it "is" - good or bad. The only exceptions being game breaking bugs like duping.

House looting is about as T2A it gets to me so it would make sense to choose a patch before this as the target date. But it seems it's been settled on "some of nov 23, 1999 patch", which is a bit of a cop out imo, I'd prefer either or, but it is rather convenient so I'm not that bothered.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cut-Off Date
PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:39 am 
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Blackbeard wrote:
It seems the term "accurate" is being used incorrectly here. Phase II housing, for example, is still accurate because it occurred during T2A.


Insta hit didn't exist during early t2a and no pre-casting occurred during late t2a.

Would having that and no insta hit be an accurate system that existed during the t2a era even though both existed at one point?

Simple answer, no.

You cannot justify a system based on accuracy just because it 'existed' at one point in time. Accuracy is replicating the game mechanics of one particular system that existed. When you start replicating game mechanics outside of that system it's not accurate. You are only creating a unique era based on t2a that never existed.

We should either 1) wipe the Nov. 23rd '99 patch and fall back to the previous one or 2) use the Nov. 23rd '99 patch and leave it at that. By using a mixture of this patch we will never be playing in a t2a system that existed. I honestly don't care what option is chosen personally. The only thing that matters is making a consistent accurate system. Using the t2a version of house looting or no house looting means very little to me. Both time periods or systems have their pros and cons.

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