New Spawns and T2A philosophy.

[McTavish]

Sorry to harp on about this but I've met quite a few people now in game who PvM alot who feel that the new spawn has driven them from their old hunting grounds.

These areas will now be empty as per OSI days as the hassle/reward factor is too great compared to easier hunting grounds. This in turn means that dungeons (or converting it to reality - resources) that were used will no longer be used. In fact I'd go as far as saying that you could delete Despise now and no-one would be any worse off (infact they probably wouldn't know it was deleted).

Personally I believe that the spirit of this shard is accuracy with regard to game philosophy rather than a blind obedience to every miniscule detail to OSI's often ill-thought through modifications.

I have to ask the question: which is more important - people using all areas of the game or people only using a small % of the game?

To put it blunty: when I (and most others) PvM we goto the areas that provide the highest reward vs hassle. The modifications now in place have so greatly skewed this reward v hassle that no-one (unless they're exploring) will goto these places on a regular basis.

do you keep statistics of dungeon usage? I'd love to see pre and post spawn mod stats.

Anyway, I do appreciate what you've done here, it's a great shard, just feel that we're going down a road blinkered to the effects of these modifications without thinking if they're best for T2A.

Remember OSI was tinkering with the spawns alot, that means that there is always going to be a fine balance to be found. Oh yeah, mobs are still path finding to me hidden and the dispel of BS and EV is a bit much from what I remember.

[Derrick]

Sorry to harp on about this but I've met quite a few people now in game who PvM alot who feel that the new spawn has driven them from their old hunting grounds.

These areas will now be empty as per OSI days as the hassle/reward factor is too great compared to easier hunting grounds. This in turn means that dungeons (or converting it to reality - resources) that were used will no longer be used. In fact I'd go as far as saying that you could delete Despise now and no-one would be any worse off (infact they probably wouldn't know it was deleted).

Personally I believe that the spirit of this shard is accuracy with regard to game philosophy rather than a blind obedience to every miniscule detail to OSI's often ill-thought through modifications.

I have to ask the question: which is more important - people using all areas of the game or people only using a small % of the game?

To put it blunty: when I (and most others) PvM we goto the areas that provide the highest reward vs hassle. The modifications now in place have so greatly skewed this reward v hassle that no-one (unless they're exploring) will goto these places on a regular basis.

do you keep statistics of dungeon usage? I'd love to see pre and post spawn mod stats.

Anyway, I do appreciate what you've done here, it's a great shard, just feel that we're going down a road blinkered to the effects of these modifications without thinking if they're best for T2A.

Remember OSI was tinkering with the spawns alot, that means that there is always going to be a fine balance to be found. Oh yeah, mobs are still path finding to me hidden and the dispel of BS and EV is a bit much from what I remember.

You make some good points. However I think that some spawns and dungeon areas are and always have been just pure rubbish. Top of despise for example, always worthless. And Pulling people together into common popular hunting grounds isn't such a bad thing, although that's not our intention with these changes.

We will continue to tweak the spawns within the realm of some accuracy based on player feedback

Thanks for the post!

[Chrysanne Th'Mum]

I would like to add that the new dispel rate is alot higher than I remember it ever being. Now gargoyles are dispelling my EVs before they even reach them and liches/daemons sometimes dispel 2 or 3 before I can even get them poisoned. BSs are now completely useless against these mobs as well as far as I've seen, I don't even bother casting them since they can't even poison the liches/daemons. Could anyone else weigh in on this being far too aggressive on the insta-dispel and the rate at which monsters use it? I never played beyond early '99 so I don't know if these changes (along with some of the new dungeon spawns) occured in the era but just after I quit playing.

[Derrick]

I would like to add that the new dispel rate is alot higher than I remember it ever being. Now gargoyles are dispelling my EVs before they even reach them and liches/daemons sometimes dispel 2 or 3 before I can even get them poisoned. BSs are now completely useless against these mobs as well as far as I've seen, I don't even bother casting them since they can't even poison the liches/daemons. Could anyone else weigh in on this being far too aggressive on the insta-dispel and the rate at which monsters use it? I never played beyond early '99 so I don't know if these changes (along with some of the new dungeon spawns) occured in the era but just after I quit playing.

I think it's high too.
They shouldn't actually be dispelling before they reach them though, they have a one tile dispel range

[Chrysanne Th'Mum]

Hmm well I just noticed something else that might explain my gargoyle dispelling. Do monsters now flock to EVs and BSs? I just had 3 daemons surround an EV ... my guess is if that's true then what really happened with the gargoyle is that my EV aggrod another as it passed it and that one dispelled it. I just thought since it was heading for the one farther away that that was the one that dispelled. Is the flocking new? Or am I just imagining it? Because I definately don't remember that ever happening hehe.

[Derrick]

Hmm well I just noticed something else that might explain my gargoyle dispelling. Do monsters now flock to EVs and BSs? I just had 3 daemons surround an EV ... my guess is if that's true then what really happened with the gargoyle is that my EV aggrod another as it passed it and that one dispelled it. I just thought since it was heading for the one farther away that that was the one that dispelled. Is the flocking new? Or am I just imagining it? Because I definately don't remember that ever happening hehe.

Aye, that was just added in this mornings patch or a couple days ago's, the monsters will now acquire EV's and Blades

[Faust]

I would like to add that the new dispel rate is alot higher than I remember it ever being. Now gargoyles are dispelling my EVs before they even reach them and liches/daemons sometimes dispel 2 or 3 before I can even get them poisoned. BSs are now completely useless against these mobs as well as far as I've seen, I don't even bother casting them since they can't even poison the liches/daemons. Could anyone else weigh in on this being far too aggressive on the insta-dispel and the rate at which monsters use it? I never played beyond early '99 so I don't know if these changes (along with some of the new dungeon spawns) occured in the era but just after I quit playing.

I always remember dispelling being like this soon as they implemented the feature into the game. For example, at the lich lord room if you had a planted EV on the ledge and screwed it up it would fall down and be dispelled in a matter of mili-seconds.

If you notice on here they don't entirely dispel immediately if multiple EV's hit it. An example of this would be casting an EV on it and have another ready to be casted. They don't dispel the 2nd one as quickly as the first as I remember it as well. During t2a I remember extensively having to wait until mobs were out of mana before throwing up an EV soley because of them being able to dispel. The only time you could put EV's in place without worrying about it is in the world spots that allowed them to be bugged without dispelling. Deceit, Shame, and Hythloth all has spots where you can EV without it being dispelled by using the bug.

[Chrysanne Th'Mum]

I'll be honest, I don't recall anything dispelling the way they are currently. All I have ever really done is PvM and it's beginning to frustrate me today. The only thing worth killing it seems is dragons and drakes, at least they die in a timely fashion. On a side note, I do recall dragons dispelling from time to time but I probably shouldn't say that in case that gets added and the dispel rate isn't reduced Also, I definately used to kill a large variety of high level monsters that blade spirits were at least effective against (liches, lich lords, daemons) and this dispel rate has made it impossible to kill those without EVs. I guess what it comes down to is that in '99 I didn't have a GM mage and rarely wasted my time/reagents/mana trying to cast EV but yet I killed high level monsters by myself using BSs and had maxed fame doing so. Anyone else who used to do alot of PvM have additional thoughts?

[caveman]

I also remember having to deplete a monster's mana so they wouldn't be able to dispel. Daemons are harder to dispel than ev's and blades. I don't remember monsters being able to teleport in t2a though. Excpet maybe the evil mage lords(not the minor ones).

[McTavish]

You make some good points. However I think that some spawns and dungeon areas are and always have been just pure rubbish. Top of despise for example, always worthless. And Pulling people together into common popular hunting grounds isn't such a bad thing, although that's not our intention with these changes.

We will continue to tweak the spawns within the realm of some accuracy based on player feedback

Thanks for the post!

Derrick,

Thanks for response. However I have to disagree with you about the top of Despise, in 1997/1998 the top of Despise was really busy because the fixed chests spawned magic items. Some of my earliest memories of UO were doing the Despise run from britain. The attraction of the magic armour/weapons bought many players which in turn attracted PK's. Scarey but great fun.

The dispel is definitely far more than I expected.

[Derrick]

I also remember having to deplete a monster's mana so they wouldn't be able to dispel. Daemons are harder to dispel than ev's and blades. I don't remember monsters being able to teleport in t2a though. Excpet maybe the evil mage lords(not the minor ones).

Aye. Me too on the mana.

THe teleporting should not be happening and was related to dispelling I think. I've fixed it and shouldn't happen anymore tommorrow

Except for: Evil Mage Lords, Wandering Healers, and Escortable Mages
Who use a special AI

[Purge]

I'll be honest, I don't recall anything dispelling the way they are currently. All I have ever really done is PvM and it's beginning to frustrate me today. The only thing worth killing it seems is dragons and drakes, at least they die in a timely fashion. On a side note, I do recall dragons dispelling from time to time but I probably shouldn't say that in case that gets added and the dispel rate isn't reduced Also, I definately used to kill a large variety of high level monsters that blade spirits were at least effective against (liches, lich lords, daemons) and this dispel rate has made it impossible to kill those without EVs. I guess what it comes down to is that in '99 I didn't have a GM mage and rarely wasted my time/reagents/mana trying to cast EV but yet I killed high level monsters by myself using BSs and had maxed fame doing so. Anyone else who used to do alot of PvM have additional thoughts?

Dispelling could be toned down on some of the monsters but it makes them NO WHERE near impossible to kill with a BS... okay so it takes 2-3 BS's instead of one...

I mean hell it only takes 7-8 to kill a balron

[Chrysanne Th'Mum]

I'd like to go back to my statement about a gargoyle dispelling an EV before it had even reacheds it and Derrick's response that they only have a 1 tile dispel range. I just had a lich in Wind dispel a BS and an EV when they were at least 3 tiles away from it. Has anyone else experienced this? Purge, I wouldn't mind having to use 2 or 3 BSs to kill liches or whatnot but I'm having much more trouble than that so far, maybe it's just my bad luck but I really don't remember it being this difficult to kill these things. Thanks for the input

[Derrick]

I'm working on this this morning. They shouldn't be teleporting at all as stated above. I belive the current behavior is that they teleport away, then dispel. Is this what you are seeing?

[Chrysanne Th'Mum]

I didn't see it teleport before the BS and EV were dispelled but I can't be 100% certain I suppose. Thanks for looking into this Derrick.