What should I make for my next character?

[Foxhound3857]

I've GM'd fishing on my Scurvy Steve toon and now it's just a matter of raising up the rest of his skills as I adventure on the high seas:

-GM Archery
-GM Tactics
-GM Anatomy
-GM Healing
-GM Resisting Spells
-Magery 31.9 (to guarantee 100% success, since 30 can still fizzle)
-Hiding 68.1

I also have a dexer on my account, the typical Swords/Tactics/Anat/Heal/Resist/Parry with Hiding/Magery. Now I'm wondering what my next toon should be. Would it be worthwhile for me to make a crafter of some sort? Blacksmithing for my dexer, Tailoring and Fletching for my Fisher, then I guess Carpentry, Tinkering, Mining and maybe some Lumberjack, with enough Magery for Recall scrolls? Is it worth my time to actually do this?

I know people will probably suggest a Mage, but I'm just not willing to commit the resources needed to GM one of those. It would take too long and cost WAY too much money, maybe when reagents get cheaper or I can actually afford them.

If I had my choice, eventually my account would look like this.

-Dexer
-Mage
-Thief
-Crafter
-Fisher

Anyway, what do you guys think I should go for next? Crafter, Thief, or something else?

[SaibotMK]

I know people will probably suggest a Mage, but I'm just not willing to commit the resources needed to GM one of those.

But willing to commit the resources to GM Resist

I shouldn't laugh, I suppose there are other ways to GM resist without using any reagents. Anyway if I was just playing dexxer's I would gm alchemy and poisoning for sure, but that will take resources.

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

Certainly, you possess a number of options.

Food for thought: we are permitted more than 1 account, and we are permitted to multi-box.

Myself, when I venture out on the high seas, I 'trawl' with three accounts: two fishers (one mage, one archer), with an archer-bard on 'sentinel duty'; the ship is ordered to go "slow [whatever direction]", and the fishers continually fish. Carrying a dozen or more SOSs, the ship 'trawls' from SOS to SOS and, several hours later, I return to port with lots of loots, and another batch of SOSs for the next trip ...

Whichever direction the ship is moving, it is oriented north-south, and the fishers fish off the side, one at the bow and the other at the stern: both fishers are fishing different water.

A 'complete run' will usually require 6+ hours, but I can often break it up into 2ish-hour port-to-port 'legs'.

If I need to AFK, I'll stop the macros and drop anchor, and make everybody hide (if I need to use the washroom, for example), or divert into a nearby port and/or bring everyone ashore to logout in an inn (if I need to be AFK longer).

Please remember that it is illegal to deep-water fish unattended.

Now, in the OP you have said something that I don't fully understand:

Magery 31.9 (to guarantee 100% success, since 30 can still fizzle)

At 31~ Magery the only things you can not fizzle are Circle 1-2 scrolls (Even so, there is supposed to always be a 1% chance of fizzle) ... Look here, if you don't believe me.

You've given skill, rather than ability, so I can't plot success/failure rates without knowing your stats: a Dexxer with 25-40 Int would have 33-35ish ability, which would give you only 62-64ish% success scrolling Circle 4 (Recall); that's not awful (I often limit such character-types to 35.0 Magery skill), but if you do want "no-fail" (99%) Recall-scrolls, you will need to raise Magery to 50.1 Ability.

Advice: if you haven't yet GMed Resist on Scurvy Steve, don't; this is not a PvP build, so you do not need GM Resist. 'Fire Field' Resist to 55, which is relatively quick and easy, and leave it there, or raise it to 65-75, max: this will leave you with 25-45 skill points you can invest elsewhere.

However you proceed, good luck.

SS

[Foxhound3857]

I know people will probably suggest a Mage, but I'm just not willing to commit the resources needed to GM one of those.

But willing to commit the resources to GM Resist

I shouldn't laugh, I suppose there are other ways to GM resist without using any reagents. Anyway if I was just playing dexxer's I would gm alchemy and poisoning for sure, but that will take resources.

I was going to raise it by fighting spellcasting monsters like Air Elementals, Gargoyles, and Liches, not by casting high-level spells on myself via macros. Maybe something even tougher like Blood Elementals or Titans. It's already at 55 so it should see gains from fighting these kinds of monsters.

I really need to get my Magery THAT high for a 99% success rate just with Recall SCROLLS? Ouch...I may as well just lock it at 30 then, dropping Hiding to 70.

100/100/25

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

31.9 Magery skill to 50.1 ability will be a little less than 18.2 skill points (because of stats): you'll have more than that available by simply capping Resist @ 75. With 25 Int, you should achieve 50.1 Ability in Magery with ~48.5 skill.

70 Hiding is two things: too much, and too little.

For one thing, you are not marrying Hiding to Stealth, so you are missing-out completely on that particular synergy. Otherwise, Hiding is useful, but not really that useful (or, rather, it's usefulness will always be limited by its practical utility).

What do I mean by "limited ... practical utility"? I mean this,

Any form of "Combat-Hiding" is difficult: one needs a minimum distance from any aggressor, needs to tab-out from combat mode that is caused automatically by 'auto-defend' (sysmessage: "You can not hide right now"), and then needs to pass the skill-check. So, anyone who wishes to perform some kind of "Combat-Hiding" will likely want 90-GM Hiding (say, an absolute minimum of 80), perhaps married to a significant amount of stealth.

If you aren't going to try any "Combat-Hiding" at all, then all you need is *some* Hiding, and a requisite amount of patience. Without any complicating factors (no aggro; sufficient distance from nearest mobiles), Hiding is merely a function of the ability-check: with 50 Hiding, expect twenty seconds to become hidden; with 25 Hiding, forty seconds; 15 Hiding, 60 seconds.

Inside/on-front-steps of any house to which you are at least 'friend', your Hiding will not fail (assuming no aggro); inside, or against any wall, of any other house, your Hiding skill will perform at +50.

Of course, the Random Number Generator will screw you when it's really important for you to hide quickly, and won't when it's trivial ... (that's not true, but it will seem so, on occasion).

Anyway, IMO, 70 Hiding is a value that fails to serve any worthwhile purpose (particularly if you are keeping 70 Hiding, but not raising Magery to 50.1 ...).

I certainly would not stress over raising Magery to 50.1: you will get there in relatively short order, just by remembering to use your Magery as you play; in fact, Recall-scrolling whenever you need to get around will do most of the work required, and do so relatively painlessly (failed scrolls do not destroy themselves, nor consume any mana; at least into the high 30s, your Magery should sky-rocket).

As you like, however, of course: I typically limit my 'dexxers' to 35.0 Magery (I've got other reasons for that, though).

Again, good luck.

SS

[Foxhound3857]

I want my hiding high enough to never fail a check if I'm in a dungeon and need to hide IMMEDIATELY from a PK as I'm running away, so I have enough time to get off the Recall. That's the only reason why I took Hiding in the first place, as another line of defense against prowling reds while in dungeons, because if Recall fails, I'm dead. I cannot defend myself against a GM Mage.

That's the other reason why I want to GM Resisting Spells, for defense against GM Mages and PK's, and incase I want to PvP on this character. Unless pure Archers are just terrible at it. Not to mention most monsters on the high seas are spellcasters (Water Elementals and Sea Serpents), and supposedly MR resists Sea Serpent firebreath as well.

So I guess 48.5 Magery and 51.5 Hiding would be the way to go then, if I want 99% Recall chance and reliable checks for out-of-combat hiding?

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

I want my hiding high enough to never fail a check if I'm in a dungeon and need to hide IMMEDIATELY from a PK as I'm running away, so I have enough time to get off the Recall.

Not even GM-Hiding will achieve this. Kindly, take another look at my "Combat-Hiding" remarks.

That's the only reason why I took Hiding in the first place, as another line of defense against prowling reds while in dungeons, because if Recall fails, I'm dead. I cannot defend myself against a GM Mage.

Yes, you are dead if your Recall fails. GM Hiding or no Hiding at all will have no effect whatsoever.

That's the other reason why I want to GM Resisting Spells, for defense against GM Mages and PK's, and incase I want to PvP on this character. Unless pure Archers are just terrible at it. Not to mention most monsters on the high seas are spellcasters (Water Elementals and Sea Serpents), and supposedly MR resists Sea Serpent firebreath as well.

I will list some pointers that should help to explain my modes of thinking, here

• If you can't possibly win, it is silly to fight: a fisher/archer template can't possibly hope to win (there are highly-skilled PvPers who can competitively PvP with almost any template, but they need to be properly prepared, at the very least), so there is no point at all in offering a fight, and then just dying, anyway; Recall away.
• Myself, I'm often carrying >5K loot (not including my own regs/equips): there's no way I will stand to gain more than I stand to lose if I fight; Recall away.
• When you Resist any spell, you either Resist it, or you don't, and GM Resist does NOT guarantee that you resist the spell. The mechanics of Resist are too-complicated for me to explain here (look it up, using The Wayback Machine, and then crunch the numbers): in any PvM environment, the difference you will see between GM Resist and, say, 75 Resist will be so immeasurable as to be non-existent.

So, Hiding doesn't achieve any of the effects you are hoping for, and Resist 'takes the sting out of' PvMing against spell-caster mobs, and/or hopes to mitigate enough of the PK-synch-dump, so that you are still alive to target your Recall Rune; trust me, you'll see no mileage out of GM Resist, v. 65-75.

Fizzle your emergency Recall, however, and you are dead.

SS

[Foxhound3857]

Okay, so drop Hiding, get 48.5 Magery for 50.1 ability so I get a 99% recall, and that leaves 51.5 skill points to put towards something else. What would you recommend, keeping 51.5 Hiding, or dropping it for something else?

The other option would be 25-35 Magery/65-75 Resist, leaving 100 skill to GM something else.

And let's say that I want to GM resist anyway, just to take some further sting out of spells because I don't have anywhere else to put the spare skill points. Even if I fail the resist check,I know that Resisting Spells still has a passive effect that reduces the raw damage a spell will inflict, independent of the actual resist check, based on the casters Eval Int.

I THINK I understand how Resist checks are made as well. Hopefully my math isn't complete ass, but I think the formula is something like this?

Chance to resist = Your resistance - ([Attackers Magery - 20]/5 + [5*Spell Circle])

So, let's say that I have 75 Resistance and my attacker has 80 Magery and is casting Ebolt.

75 - ([80 - 20]/5 + [5*6th circle])
75 - (12 + 30 = 42)
75 - 42 = 33

So at 75 MR, I would have a 33% chance to resist the Ebolt from a Mage with 80 Magery.

Lemme try another one, this time with GM Resist versus a GM Mage trying to cast Flamestrike.

100 - ([100 - 20])/5 + [5*7th circle])
100 - (16 + 35 = 51)
100 - 51 = 49

49% chance to resist the Flame Strike. Going by some other circles, that'd be 54% chance to resist an Ebolt or Explosion, 64% chance to resist a Lightning, and 69% chance to resist a Fireball.

How bad is my math?

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

I'm glad to see that you have looked at the formulae.

Your math is fine: but your assessments leave out a couple of important details.

Min. resist chance comes to mind, but that's minor: even PvM, that will hardly ever be invoked.

You are not accounting for Evaluate Intelligence (which compares to Resist to determine damage).

On the face of it, accounting for Evaluate Intelligence seems to suggest that you absolutely should GM Resist ...

However, you won't be PvPing; remember?

If you finish your Recall under the PK synch-dump, does it really matter if you have 3hp, or 20 when you materialize?

If it weren't for Evaluate Intelligence, I'd tell you that 55-65 is enough Resist. However, with Evaluate Intelligence, you do need to have high-enough Resist to have a reasonable expectation of surviving the synch-dump.

But that's all you need. 1 HP after Recall is alive; dead before you even target your rune isn't; dead after you fizzle your Recall isn't.

As a (smart) PvMer, you will come under PK-attack for only a few seconds out of several hours of playtime: 75 v. GM Resist is 25 points, or 3.57% of your total template, for less than 1% of your playtime in which it might actually make a difference; add to that, that 75-100 Resist will be a pain to raise ...

31.9-48.5 Magery is much-more economical, and will provide a much-more-worthwhile ROI.

SS

[Foxhound3857]

Okay, so 48.5 Magery and 75 Resist leaves 76.5 skill points for something else. Is it alright to dump this into Hiding, or can I do better on my Fisher/Archer template?

Currently the finished template looks like this:

GM Fishing
GM Archery
GM Anat
GM Healing
GM Tactics
75 Resist
48.5 Magery

76.5 skill remaining for whatever. Hiding seems like the best choice, but if it's not gonna save me anyway, and if I plan to do some dungeon diving, how about Lockpicking to open chests for more loot?

Edit: What is the synch-dump? Is that just a fancy term for the Ebolt/Explosion combo? I call it the Double Whammy.

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

There's stuff you had asked to which I had not replied.

re: "Extra" skill-points: these can sit in Hiding, for example, until raising your Magery and/or Resist starts to eat them up.

I'm a big fan of Tracking, myself: a little Tracking (skill-failure can occur below 19.~ ability but, above that, the skill can be pure gold) can prevent lots of things, particularly this, this, and almost all of this.

Tracking, however, is a skill that is a little upside-down: one can easily have so much ability that the skill 'doesn't work'!

SS

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

Lockpicking is no good unless you intend to GM.

One thing you might do is to raise Magery to 72.0 skill, and add 50 Meditation (70.1 Magery ability will no-fizzle cast Recall, and 72.0 skill gets you into Wind; Meditation will enhance your mana-regeneration whenever you are not wearing plate): while that's a good combo in its own right, I wouldn't recommend it on your fisher.

Some Hiding (more than, say, 15) will always be useful, and I mentioned Tracking in my last post.

Otherwise, you might re-examine Healing: your Fisher is a non-PvP archer, and you can't resurrect yourself with a bandage ... self-bandaging is a bit frustrating even without failures but, even so, you might drop Healing to 60-80 and free-up another 20-40 skill points.

However, I'm getting a little carried-away: I think you would find the following sufficient, and satisfying to play,

GM Anatomy
GM Archery
GM Fishing
GM Healing
50 Hiding
50 Magery
75 Resist
GM Tactics
25 Tracking

You might 'tweak' certain values (i.e. Magery) in order to not exceed certain breakpoints, but that's kind of fussy.

SS

P.S. "What is the synch-dump?"

Well, it's what you have to expect, lol: more than 1 PKer descending on you, in partnership and communicating via voice-chat, synchronizing how they dump on you. A synch-dump might include Explosion + EBolt ...

SS

[SaibotMK]

Good thing you guys are not over complicating things

[SighelmofWyrmgard]

Good thing you guys are not over complicating things

LOL. You've been working hard to refine your rotations; yes?

A lot of complication can be obviated at the template-design (and playstyle-detemination) level.

Of course, I will concede that that assessment depends on definitions of, "complication" and, "obviate", lol.

I'll insert, at this juncture: I still don't have a PvM character who has achieved even 75 Resist; I've never been PK'd because my Resist failed, only because my RL-reflexes failed; and I haven't been PK'd terribly often.

Yes, I have meleed Balrons and Titans and White Wyrms (generally, I don't do this: they smash my armour to bits; so do Ogre Lords, the shits!) ...

SS

[Foxhound3857]

Okay, so it's just a fancy term for ganking.

If I went for 72 Magery, what spells are actually going to be effective without Eval-Int? Obviously I'm thinking utility, like Arch-Cure, Greater Heal, and Bless, with Reactive Armor since I usually won't be wearing armor usually (except newbie leather gloves). But supposedly even these are affected by Eval Int, possibly to the point where they won't be worth using if I don't have it.

But if I went that route, then my template would look like:

GM Fishing
GM Archery
GM Tactics
GM Anatomy
GM Healing
72 Magery
50 Meditation
78 Resists

Alternatively, if I really felt like dumping the money into it, I could drop Anat/Healing entirely, swap Int and Dex (so Int would be 100 and Dex would be 25), and then pick up Magery in full. Then it would look like this:

GM Fishing
GM Archery
GM Tactics
GM Magery
GM Eval Int
GM Meditation
GM Resists

No wrestling (no idea how crucial that is), and if I really, REALLY wanted to, I could drop Archery for Swords and just Hally everything...I dunno, I think I'm just overcomplicating things now.

I get the feeling GM Fishers aren't really liked around here.