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 Post subject: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:45 pm 
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Just GM'ed Provo. Would like to drop some of the GM Musicianship for another skill or all of it. Is it really needed now that I've GM provo? What would happen?

Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:05 pm 
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otingocni wrote:
Just GM'ed Provo. Would like to drop some of the GM Musicianship for another skill or all of it. Is it really needed now that I've GM provo? What would happen?

Thank you


Even with GM Music and GM prov you can still fail to provoke something... So if you decrease music skill, you just increase your chance to fail.

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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:47 pm 
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100 Provo/100 Music = 0% chance to fail.
100 Provo/50 Music = 50% chance to fail.

Basically you add total Provo and Music skill and divide by 2, this will be your overall chance to succeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:30 pm 
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Rik Smits wrote:
100 Provo/100 Music = 0% chance to fail.


Is that accurate? I could have sworn I failed to provo at least once after GMing both...

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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:48 pm 
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I don't recall ever failing with my bard (GM Music & Provoke). My understanding is that Music skill + Provoke skill / 2 = chance to succeed, so (100+100)/2=100% chance, whereas (100+50)/2=75% chance to succeed, rather than 50%, as in Rik Smits example.

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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:45 pm 
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Correct! 100 Provo/50 Music would be 75 percent chance! Bad math on my part :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 4:42 pm 
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Rik Smits wrote:
Correct! 100 Provo/50 Music would be 75 percent chance! Bad math on my part :lol:


My own best understanding is that this is not true.

As per our Wiki Provocation entry, success is bardskill*musicianship, so 100/50 Provo/Music will glean only 50% success chance.

While I have not performed any extensive testing, my own personal experience here very-strongly suggests to me that the Wiki has it right. Indeed, I am certain that Barding skills perform two checks when invoked: the first against musicianship, and the second against the bardskill; failing either ruins the attempt.

A long time ago, I thought that the barding skills were controlled by (bardskill+music)/2, but I had been persuaded that I was wrong.

It's easy enough to test (and maybe I'll get around to it, some day): with 100 Musicianship and 0 Peacemaking, spam Peacemaking; it will fail 100% of the time, or it will succeed c. 50% of the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:08 pm 
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Drunk'n Disorder wrote:
otingocni wrote:
Just GM'ed Provo. Would like to drop some of the GM Musicianship for another skill or all of it. Is it really needed now that I've GM provo? What would happen?

Thank you


Even with GM Music and GM prov you can still fail to provoke something... So if you decrease music skill, you just increase your chance to fail.


That's never happened to me once. I mean, literally I have never EVER EVER failed to provoke a creature against another with my GM Music and GM Provoke, but then again- I haven't tried it against the hardest creatures in the game, Balrons and Ancient Wyrms.


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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:42 pm 
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randale wrote:
Drunk'n Disorder wrote:
otingocni wrote:
Just GM'ed Provo. Would like to drop some of the GM Musicianship for another skill or all of it. Is it really needed now that I've GM provo? What would happen?

Thank you


Even with GM Music and GM prov you can still fail to provoke something... So if you decrease music skill, you just increase your chance to fail.


That's never happened to me once. I mean, literally I have never EVER EVER failed to provoke a creature against another with my GM Music and GM Provoke, but then again- I haven't tried it against the hardest creatures in the game, Balrons and Ancient Wyrms.


Can't fail.

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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:51 pm 
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Does it matter if you train in a house? Or the level of the creature?

I'm macroing provo (a goat against a hind) for 3 hours now, going from 75.2 to 78.5, it seems very slow to me. I'm already GM Music.

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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:56 pm 
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I don't think provoke is difficulty based so the level of the creatures doesn't matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:12 am 
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Kabup wrote:
Does it matter if you train in a house? Or the level of the creature?

I'm macroing provo (a goat against a hind) for 3 hours now, going from 75.2 to 78.5, it seems very slow to me. I'm already GM Music.


I don't think so- to both questions. I GM'd it just by keeping the two animals separate.


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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:38 am 
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u can fail by balrons, wws, aws etc. u can even fail by normal dragons as 2xGM.

and yea u need both skills gmed.

ps: invis items will be your best friend.

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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:30 pm 
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Arsen wrote:
u can fail by balrons, wws, aws etc. u can even fail by normal dragons as 2xGM.

and yea u need both skills gmed.

ps: invis items will be your best friend.


want to post a video of a fail? I've never seen it with GM music and GM provoke.


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 Post subject: Re: Is GM Musicianship needed for a Provoke character?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:22 pm 
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randale wrote:
Arsen wrote:
u can fail by balrons, wws, aws etc. u can even fail by normal dragons as 2xGM.

and yea u need both skills gmed.

ps: invis items will be your best friend.


want to post a video of a fail? I've never seen it with GM music and GM provoke.


That's because it can't happen.

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