Proposed changes to spellcasting on test center

[Faust]

Slade,

This is accurate as much as I hated this patch when it was published. This patch in early '99 ended the all so familiar pre-t2a tactic for thieves to steal and kill after their victim attacked them. If their victim attacked and the thief killed them the victim had the option of reporting the thief for murder, so that the thief would be booted from the thieves guild. This was OSI's first attempt to restrict thieves to be simply that. A thief and nothing more.

[DrFaustus]

These are the kinds of things that I seriously would consider debating about.

[Slade]

Slade,

This is accurate as much as I hated this patch when it was published. This patch in early '99 ended the all so familiar pre-t2a tactic for thieves to steal and kill after their victim attacked them. If their victim attacked and the thief killed them the victim had the option of reporting the thief for murder, so that the thief would be booted from the thieves guild. This was OSI's first attempt to restrict thieves to be simply that. A thief and nothing more.

You're right, and it's also the reason that I and thousands of others weren't around on OSI to see the release of UOR.

Between this and the housing lockdown patch and the MASSIVE blessing of items, they killed it.

Is that what you're trying to accomplish here?

[Slade]

Can't edit posts here.


I feel like I need to remind people that the killing of UO as most of us loved it didn't happen overnight. It was stupid patches like this that were the very beginning of the trammelization of UO.

There is no single moment that you can look back and say "That was the day UO died."

Those moments are littered in the 1999+ patch notes. Some more damning than others to different people. But each of them worked toward a common goal: Dumbing down the game for the whiny bitches in an effort to maintain subscriptions.

I actually quit for good after I saw my first Trammel gate. I don't know when that was, but my time had gone more and more to EQ leading up that point. Once they basically implemented an all-encompassing toggle for carebearism (Trammel) it was clear that UO was dead and I was no longer wanted.

[Red]

I actually like the thieving change.

I never killed anyone on my thief in T2A. All he had was hiding, snooping, stealing, and a bit of healing/anat. That's where the fun was to be had. See how many items you could steal without dieing. Also, if a thief accidentally wrestles you too much, the victim could kill themselves to count the thief.

I also remember people bringing thieves into Guild vs Guild action, for the sole purpose of giving their friends the advantage(not to kill anyone).

Also, regarding the "You see X attacking Y!" does that mean when someone attacks you, it displays above your head in red text "X is attacking you!!"?

[Derrick]

On the issue of thieving. The thieves guild itself was introduced in Feb '99 which is when this effect of stealing being aggressive actually mattered. It's unclear whether this "feature" was added at that time or not. In either case most core T2A features that defined the era to some extent were added in early 1999 such as the Anatomy damage bonus and the Meditation skill.

I understand this may be an unexpected change to many but it was actually believed to have already been this way and only recently discovered it was not working. If you search the forums for "stealing aggressive", you will find some of this discussion

Also, regarding the "You see X attacking Y!" does that mean when someone attacks you, it displays above your head in red text "X is attacking you!!"?

That message has already been there, the added message goes to everyone in the vicinity.

[Milford Cubicle]

The problems with swings causing Auto-Defend have been fixed. What is now live on test center is the final proposed changes.

The following has been added:

• Stealing is an aggressive act for the purpose of determining murder.
• Getting caught and difficulty when Stealing now considers the difficulty of the steal (item weight) And the number of humans that are in your view.
• You will no longer gain stealing skill on success, only on full or partial failure.
• Players in the vicinity of an attack will now receive the message "You see X attacking Y"

So if I steal from someone, they attack me, and I kill them, I get a murder count? This is pretty retarded imo.

actually that's exactly how i remembered it. if you really think about it, someone doing a criminal act toward you, then killing you after the criminal act? I don't think thieves are really meant to be combat warrior types, a thief is supposed to be sneaky and avoid combat at nearly all costs.

[Slade]

actually that's exactly how i remembered it. if you really think about it, someone doing a criminal act toward you, then killing you after the criminal act? I don't think thieves are really meant to be combat warrior types, a thief is supposed to be sneaky and avoid combat at nearly all costs.

God, you people just don't get it.

It was CHANGED to behave that way during the ongoing trammelization of the game.

It was NOT always like that. I killed hundreds if not thousands of people on my thieves spread over 7 different OSI servers.

Made literally millions and sold my accounts on ebay for a few thousand dollars when trammel officially hit.

IT WAS NOT ALWAYS LIKE THIS.

[Kaivan]

Just to add a bit of information to what we have here, the aggressive action addition to stealing was put into place on February 24, 1999. Details on some of the working of this change are explained in the February 11, 1999 HoC chat found here.

Based on the available evidence regarding aggressive actions as a thief, as well as the early implementation of the system as a whole, we've chosen to make this addition. If we were to deny this addition due to it's nature, we would have to make that same argument for many other changes that were made at the same time, or after this change. This would include things such as the many of the new skills, the improvements to other skills, and the entire long term murder count system. While I understand that this change may not be a favorable change for thieves, this is a change that is accurate to the era, and in the end, that is what we are aiming for.

[Derrick]

This aggressive nature of stealing is part of the thieves guild system and co-existed with the thieves guild from the inception of the guild to it's end in UO:R. This should have been in from the beginning, it was not only by error.

[DrFaustus]

I still think this is worth taking a second look at. It adds a completely new dimension to the idea of thieving IMO. And considering it was IN T2A, and I've seen other discussions revolving around "leaving" or "changing" this should be left as it was...

[Derrick]

We've discussed this a lot in other threads, it was thought to be in already, and not having it is in direct conflict with the presence of the thieves guild, which also was both existant and not for the same timeframe.

[ichi]

Well since everyone is voicing their opinions against this change, I will go in and say that it is not a bad change imo.

[RoadKill]

I play a thief, will I continue to use him after the changes? You betcha. My thief's template doesn't even need modifications from an update like this.

*thumbs up*

[DrFaustus]

It's not a bad change to any of you, because NONE of you have experienced the ownage of a towny.