Proposed changes to spellcasting on test center

[Red]

Townies and thieves should be two different things.

[Cue_Ball]

So, does this mean if I'm sitting at the bank and some thief steals from me, I can just kill myself and give them a count?

How often can I give the thief a count?
Seriously, can I make a thief red in a little over 10 mins (2minCrimTimer x5) if he continues to steal from me after each rez?

And if he doesn't go red, I get to torment him until he logs off or the server goes down?

[Derrick]

So, does this mean if I'm sitting at the bank and some thief steals from me, I can just kill myself and give them a count?

How often can I give the thief a count?
Seriously, can I make a thief red in a little over 10 mins (2minCrimTimer x5) if he continues to steal from me after each rez?

And if he doesn't go red, I get to torment him until he logs off or the server goes down?

No, it wouldn't work that way

The thief changes have been urgently pulled due to a bug.

[Mens Rea]

The thief must damage you in order for you to die and give the count.

If you attack them after 2 minutes is up then normal perma rules apply and they can kill you.

[Yohsiph]

I think it's a great change.

There's a difference between actually using your stealing ability to steal items from a players inventory, and merely using it to provoke people into battle with you so that you can kill them.

Provoke thievery -- an excuse to kill people without going reds, usually new players.
Stealth theivery -- stealing and finding a way to sneak away.

Or like my friend used to do; he would steal something, and if he was attacked with melee, disarm their weapon and steal that too. That actually takes some skill.

The people who are upset that they can't troll brit GY and blacksmiths in order to ultimately kill someone for loot rather than stealing it aren't doing the class justice.

[Slade]

I think it's a great change.

There's a difference between actually using your stealing ability to steal items from a players inventory, and merely using it to provoke people into battle with you so that you can kill them.

Provoke thievery -- an excuse to kill people without going reds, usually new players.
Stealth theivery -- stealing and finding a way to sneak away.

Or like my friend used to do; he would steal something, and if he was attacked with melee, disarm their weapon and steal that too. That actually takes some skill.

The people who are upset that they can't troll brit GY and blacksmiths in order to ultimately kill someone for loot rather than stealing it aren't doing the class justice.

There is hardly anything worth stealing...

The point is to drum up a fight so you can take it all. This is what UO is all about.

[LudKrud]

I think it's a great change.

There's a difference between actually using your stealing ability to steal items from a players inventory, and merely using it to provoke people into battle with you so that you can kill them.

Provoke thievery -- an excuse to kill people without going reds, usually new players.
Stealth theivery -- stealing and finding a way to sneak away.

Or like my friend used to do; he would steal something, and if he was attacked with melee, disarm their weapon and steal that too. That actually takes some skill.

The people who are upset that they can't troll brit GY and blacksmiths in order to ultimately kill someone for loot rather than stealing it aren't doing the class justice.

No disarm here......

[Yohsiph]

There is hardly anything worth stealing...

The point is to drum up a fight so you can take it all. This is what UO is all about.

Well we know that's not true, because if there's nothing worth stealing, then there's nothing worth killing for, unless you play your class purely for the sake of stealing armor -- I can think of easier ways to acquire it.

UO is not "all about" killing someone and taking all of their things. That's part of what being a pk is about and that's just one aspect of the game. If that's what you want to do, fine, but it seems like you just want to use the class to murder without going red.

You can still "drum up a fight," but you can take the count just like everyone else.

[Slade]

There is hardly anything worth stealing...

The point is to drum up a fight so you can take it all. This is what UO is all about.

Well we know that's not true, because if there's nothing worth stealing, then there's nothing worth killing for, unless you play your class purely for the sake of stealing armor -- I can think of easier ways to acquire it.

Use your head.

Do I really have to explain the difference between stealing ONE that weighs less than 10 stones, and killing someone outright to take EVERYTHING they have?

You can still "drum up a fight," but you can take the count just like everyone else.

Really? Ok I guess I'll explain it then.

The difference between my thief and PK is that my thief fights people who CHOOSE to engage me. PK's take murders because their victims are 100% unwilling participants in the battle itself.

Obviously, no one comes up to me and says, "Hey, would you please steal my mandrake root?" but they most certainly do make a choice when they decide to go into warmode and attack me afterward instead of simply recalling away or putting their things into a container.

You and I both know that you aren't that dumb, so let's stop with the silly comparisons between thieves and PK's.

[Yohsiph]

Do I really have to explain the difference between stealing ONE that weighs less than 10 stones, and killing someone outright to take EVERYTHING they have?

The first is thieving, while the other is Pking?

The difference between my thief and PK is that my thief fights people who CHOOSE to engage me. PK's take murders because their victims are 100% unwilling participants in the battle itself.

False. Just because a pk attacks a person doesn't mean that the intended victim does not participate willingly. Following people around and goading them into combat is not thievery, and it's not crafty; it's annoying, and frankly, it's also borderline griefing.

You're exploiting a game mechanic to avoid going red -- for all intensive purposes you're a murderer. And again, that's fine, but you can play as a red. I'm actually curious as to why you don't just take the 200 or so points from snooping and thievery, put them into something more lethal, and just gank people if you believe that stealing alone is an unprofitable endeavor.

[Yohsiph]

So, does this mean if I'm sitting at the bank and some thief steals from me, I can just kill myself and give them a count?

How often can I give the thief a count?
Seriously, can I make a thief red in a little over 10 mins (2minCrimTimer x5) if he continues to steal from me after each rez?

And if he doesn't go red, I get to torment him until he logs off or the server goes down?

This would be impossible, because upon getting the murder count they would be booted from the thieves' guild and thus unable to steal from players for the next week until they can rejoin.

[alatar]

For every murder count a thief takes, there is 40 hours of in-game time they must "decay" before they can steal again.

[Kaivan]

It's actually more than just a 40 hour wait time. If you receive a murder count, you will also be expelled from the thieves guild and will not be able to re-join for a week.

[Red]

I believe that if the damage someone takes heals before the person can kill himself, the attacker won't get a count.

[Derrick]

Thieving changes now live on TestCenter:
http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic. ... 28&p=29335