Thieving Changes Live On Test.

[Derrick]

Test center is up with latest thieving corrections.

• When you steal from a blue player and are not "completely successful" you will become immediately grey to the victim and if they attack you, they will remain blue to you. If you attack them you will be eligible for a murder count.
• If you are completely successful, you will still receive a perma-grey flag if the victim was an innocent, but will remain blue to the victim until they attack you, at which point they will be grey (attackable) to you, and you will not be eligible for a murder count upon their death.
• A thief who is attacked by a victim due to a perma grey flag and when the attacker remains blue to him will not auto defend, and will therefore not receive a murder count upon the victims death unless he explicitly attacks the blue.

These changes are now active on test.uosecondage.com for testing.

[Kraarug]

That's about how I remember it.

[Mens Rea]

Stealing acted the same as any other aggressive act. This also applies to the 120 countdown timer.

So, a thief should be able to run and hide for 120 seconds. If the victim attacks the thief after 120 seconds without re-flagging then regular perma rules apply and the thief can kill the victim.

This is how I am pretty sure it used to be.

[Tootles]

Test center is up with latest thieving corrections.

* When you steal from a blue player and are not "completely successful" you will become immediately grey to the victim and if they attack you, they will remain blue to you. If you attack them you will be eligible for a murder count.
* If you are completely successful, you will still receive a perma-grey flag if the victim was an innocent, but will remain blue to the victim until they attack you, at which point they will be grey (attackable) to you, and you will not be eligible for a murder count upon their death.
* A thief who is attacked by a victim due to a perma grey flag and when the attacker remains blue to him will not auto defend, and will therefore not receive a murder count upon the victims death unless he explicitly attacks the blue.

These changes are now active on test.uosecondage.com for testing.

Ok perhaps I am just to stupid to comprehend this correctly. I understand the first part but the second part makes no sense to me at all. Are you saying if the fail they turn grey however if they succeed then they remain blue?......Are our thieves not good enough at stealing from the poor noobies as it is so you want them to get even better?

[Mens Rea]

You're not stupud tootles- but the lack of understanding you mentioned lends itself to misinterpretting what the patch does.

There have always been numerous results of stealing:

1) Completely successful (you don't change colour, and get the item)
2) Successful (you get the item, and go perma-grey)
3) Successful/fail (you get the item, but go grey)
4) Fail (you don't get the item, and go grey)
(and I think a 5) Fail (where you don't get the item, and don't go grey)

This is how it has always been. The patch merely makes it so the victim can give a count if the thief kills them, the thief is then unable to steal for 40 hours of game time because they cannot join the thief guild with a single count.

So no, thieves are not being made stronger- quite the opposite.

[Tootles]

You're not stupud tootles- but the lack of understanding you mentioned lends itself to misinterpretting what the patch does.

There have always been numerous results of stealing:

1) Completely successful (you don't change colour, and get the item)
2) Successful (you get the item, and go perma-grey)
3) Successful/fail (you get the item, but go grey)
4) Fail (you don't get the item, and go grey)
(and I think a 5) Fail (where you don't get the item, and don't go grey)

This is how it has always been. The patch merely makes it so the victim can give a count if the thief kills them, the thief is then unable to steal for 40 hours of game time because they cannot join the thief guild with a single count.

So no, thieves are not being made stronger- quite the opposite.

Thank you I understand now.

[Virindi1]

1) Completely successful (you don't change colour, and get the item)
2) Successful (you get the item, and go perma-grey)
3) Successful/fail (you get the item, but go grey)
4) Fail (you don't get the item, and go grey)
(and I think a 5) Fail (where you don't get the item, and don't go grey)

On situation #2, if the person attacks the thief can assumable kill the person and not get a murder count?
Thanks,
-v

[Kaivan]

Let me explain, in detail, exactly what each result will give you.

• True Success: Item is successfully stolen and the thief only receives the perma-grey status. Also, as an additional effect, the thief will not permanently appear grey to the person who he stole from until he is attacked by that person for the first time, and they are not flagged as an aggressor to the person that they stole from.
• Partial Success: Item is successfully stolen and the thief receives the perma-grey, criminal, and the aggressor flag (provided the item was stolen from a person and not a crate or the ground). In this case, the thief appears grey to everyone, and is also flagged as an aggressor to the person that they stole from. In this case, the thief would receive a murder count for defending himself until the current aggressor flag expires because he is currently the aggressor to the person who he had stolen from. The thief will also immediately appear grey to the person that he stole from and will remain that way until death. This is also the most common result for a theft at GM skill.
• Partial Failure: Item is not successfully stolen and the thief receives the perma-grey and aggressor flags. In this case, the thief does not receive the criminal flag and will not be killed by the guards, but they are still an aggressor to the person that they stole from, and can receive murder counts for defending themselves until the aggressor flag expires. A thief will also appear permanently grey to the person that they stole from until death.
• Total Failure: Item is not successfully stolen and the thief receives the perma-grey, criminal, and aggressor flags. This is essentially the same result as the Partial Success, but you do not actually steal the item.

A couple of notes about these results:

• All flags are ignored when attempting to steal from a criminal, murderer, aggressor to you, guildmate, or warring guild. Essentially anything that is not an innocent blue or town crate will circumvent the flags.
• The perma-grey, and the criminal flag can be received by non-Thieves Guild players. Any time you steal, including from town chests and NPCs, you will receive the perma-grey status, except in the above situations; the perma-grey flag does not take into account your Thieves Guild status.
• Any person who is perma-grey is freely attackable by anyone, but they will only appear grey to people who they have stolen from until death.

[Milford Cubicle]

Let me explain, in detail, exactly what each result will give you.

• True Success: Item is successfully stolen and the thief only receives the perma-grey status. Also, as an additional effect, the thief will not permanently appear grey to the person who he stole from until he is attacked by that person for the first time, and they are not flagged as an aggressor to the person that they stole from.
• Any person who is perma-grey is freely attackable by anyone, but they will only appear grey to people who they have stolen from until death.

??

[Faust]

Milford,

True Success - When a thief receives a true success from stealing they will technically have a hidden perma grey status from the person they stole from. This means that they will appear blue to the person they stole from until this person attacks them turning them to a perma grey status.

Second Question - A thief will only highlight perma flagged(grey) to the person they stole from. This means that the thief is in fact perma grey but nobody else are able to tell unless they attacked the thief to have it show up. They will look blue to everyone else that the thief didn't steal from but be in fact perma flagged until they are attacked. People must be careful when attacking a thief and be sure that the thief is perma grey before proceeding.

[Hyder]

WOW.. For the first time I think you made the game less fun.. Time to retire my thief.

[Milford Cubicle]

Milford,

True Success - When a thief receives a true success from stealing they will technically have a hidden perma grey status from the person they stole from. This means that they will appear blue to the person they stole from until this person attacks them turning them to a perma grey status.

Second Question - A thief will only highlight perma flagged(grey) to the person they stole from. This means that the thief is in fact perma grey but nobody else are able to tell unless they attacked the thief to have it show up. They will look blue to everyone else that the thief didn't steal from but be in fact perma flagged until they are attacked. People must be careful when attacking a thief and be sure that the thief is perma grey before proceeding.

It still confuses me, and I'm not trying to argue, just saying that I don't understand correctly. It seems in the first incident the person isn't perma grey to the person they stole, then the second one you say that the thief is... are you saying in the second one that it's not true success? or maybe i just don't quite understand :P

[Derrick]

Whenever you steal you get a perma grey flag, the only difference between "complete success" and the others is the "visibility" of that flag. If completely successful, the Perma grey state will not be visible to anyone, i.e., you will highlight Blue until you are attacked. If you are not completely successful you will immediately and until death highlight "attackable" to the victim, however to other you will not highlight attackable, you will highlight blue once your criminal status has worn off.

[Cpt Spaulding]

WOW.. For the first time I think you made the game less fun.. Time to retire my thief.

If you are partially successful or unsuccessful you are eligible for the murder count...so this in turn actually plays in favor of a thief because they can now be completely successful and their victim will actually have to catch them stealing, instead of your thief just turning grey to them. Which also means once they attack you and reveal you as perma-grey, you are able to fight back without risk of a count. Makes it more fun to play a thief if you ask me.

[Cpt Spaulding]

Not to mention...partial success means you turn grey to everyone, in which case most thieves in town are guard whacked anyway.