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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:04 am 
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Nayee wrote:
your advise is for people to leave. great community!


His advise is that the shard "goals" are clearly written out on the front page of the web site. If you don't agree with those goals than you probably shouldn't be playing here in the first place. This shard is about replicating the t2a era, not replicating a personal t2a era that you invision.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:58 am 
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son wrote:
I read this, Derrick gave warning, you coulda macroed to 99.5 np before patch was implemented.

Thank God I read it too and was close enough to hit 99.6. Only decoding level 4 maps will be a real problem though, I mean you'd probably need a few hundred maps to get 1.5 skill points. With the low drop rate this will be pretty much impossible.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:08 am 
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RoadKill wrote:
I'm a Veteran player, I don't have a Grandmaster or even Master Cartographer, I support this patch.

Change is good, difficult skill gain is good, no one is twisting your arm to play here, but you should remember that from the time you arrive on this shard, you have a chance to know all the upcoming changes. Patch notes are available to everyone and the Wiki has a decent search feature. The front page specifically outlines the goals and plans of this shard, there is a "blue print" to it. Don't play on a T2A shard if you don't want a T2A ruleset. Hell, our staff is even kind enough to point out the specific time range of T2A they are aiming to replicate. You won't find that anywhere else.


I was at 99.7 when the announcement of the changes was made. I made a post in the Trade forum to acquire level 5 maps as fast as possible, by overpaying for them. They got me to 99.8. Don't give me some bullshit about how I should have known or could have done this or that.

And at least I have a CHANCE of GMing the skill. Anyone that joins this shard from this day onwards will have no chance, unless I guess they are willing to spend over a million gp for maps. Are you honestly arguing that this was "how it was" in 1999?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:56 am 
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I understand that a lot of people play here for the T2A era accuracy. That's fine. That's why I play here.

But what is the point in replicating the bad with the good? Shall we also implement the crippling bugs that were in T2A?

Take the bandage cutting for example. That's just a pointless exercise that really doesn't benefit at all. There were good things and bad things about T2A, and I strongly doubt that people want every little bit replicated because some of the tedious things like the bandage cutting and other things, along with the bugs, did little more than piss people off.

The exp potion thing? Who cares. It's barely a change, honestly. The mount fatigue and being bucked off I don't even remember from T2A. The carto thing? Right when I was about to make a carto this happened, and now I don't think I will bother.

As far as the veterans liking the changes, of course you guys do. You guys already have GM carto's and other chars that you made before. And then you guys tell the rest of us we should go to another server if we don't like the changes? Wonderful. That's a great way to keep players. You guys get what you want and the newer players suffer for it because we have to deal with all the crappy things about T2A that made it tedious and ridiculous. I guess everyone would love Angel Island and those other servers with the 1337 PVPERS OWNING EVERYONE OMG U MAD. We have enough of that here, thank God it's not over the top. This is a great server, but I really see no point in putting the in the tedious changes no one liked in the first place, and I dislike being told that maybe I should leave if I don't agree with pointless changes. I was hoping that maybe this server would dig up the good things about T2A and implement them, not the crappy stuff. The reason people liked T2A so much wasn't because of the bandage cutting, the mount fatigue, and exp pots, or the cartography or even the requirement to taste ID potions before knowing what they were.

All I am saying is, this is one of the more active servers around, and for good reason, but players will leave with changes like this. Shards like AI and UOG are sparsely populated now for a reason, and I'd hate to see this shard go the way of the dinosaurs like those shards. I just wish it was easier to appeal some changes, especially when I see a majority of players disliking them. It's not because they want UO:R or anything, it's just that they, like myself, don't see any point in replicating the things that hurt T2A and drive players away.

Why not keep the good things, and get rid of the stupid crap? Are the researchers so dedicated to T2A replication that they are willing to have a shard with no population because everyone left because of pointless changes?

I want to play UO, but honestly, if the population dwindles with this patch, I'll probably end up quitting UO altogether, again.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:22 pm 
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Jimmy Jakes wrote:
The reason people liked T2A so much wasn't because of the bandage cutting, the mount fatigue, and exp pots, or the cartography or even the requirement to taste ID potions before knowing what they were.


OK, so give some input as to what more needs to be added for people to "like T2A" instead of making posts like this? Head on over to the suggestion forum and make some suggestions. Personally, I rarely PvM, I even more rarely PvP, I'm at that point where I look for more original and unique ways to enjoy the game (and no, I don't mean crafting.) I also like changes like this because they help improve the overall vibe of the shard to be that of what it should be. UO is UO because of everything put together, not a tweaked PvP system and call it a day.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 12:58 pm 
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Mikel123 wrote:
RoadKill wrote:
I'm a Veteran player, I don't have a Grandmaster or even Master Cartographer, I support this patch.

Change is good, difficult skill gain is good, no one is twisting your arm to play here, but you should remember that from the time you arrive on this shard, you have a chance to know all the upcoming changes. Patch notes are available to everyone and the Wiki has a decent search feature. The front page specifically outlines the goals and plans of this shard, there is a "blue print" to it. Don't play on a T2A shard if you don't want a T2A ruleset. Hell, our staff is even kind enough to point out the specific time range of T2A they are aiming to replicate. You won't find that anywhere else.


I was at 99.7 when the announcement of the changes was made. I made a post in the Trade forum to acquire level 5 maps as fast as possible, by overpaying for them. They got me to 99.8. Don't give me some bullshit about how I should have known or could have done this or that.

And at least I have a CHANCE of GMing the skill. Anyone that joins this shard from this day onwards will have no chance, unless I guess they are willing to spend over a million gp for maps. Are you honestly arguing that this was "how it was" in 1999?



If this is how it was, I am very intrigued on how anyone was ever able to GM this skill...between having to gain so much from "tattered maps". My guess is that the skill gain for decoding 4's and 5's will probably need to be tweaked.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:16 pm 
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my frenzied ostard has been going fatigued every 2-5 minutes. is it supposed to be like this?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:19 pm 
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Derrick is currently working on fixing mount stam, though 2(if its straight running) should probably be about right.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:23 pm 
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its getting fatigued going from delucia bank, to blacksmith, selling items, then running back to bank. pretty obsurd.

edit: just got the message in game. thanks Derrick!

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:42 pm 
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poogoblin wrote:
If this is how it was, I am very intrigued on how anyone was ever able to GM this skill...between having to gain so much from "tattered maps". My guess is that the skill gain for decoding 4's and 5's will probably need to be tweaked.

We will be looking at this. There's no need for skill gain on 5's of course because you must be gm to decode, but the level 4 bottleneck will be analyzed. The likely issue here is the inability to gain on failure.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:58 pm 
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You can continue listening too the board trolls and making changes.....changes are going to cause you to loss veteran players... I already know a few of the core guilds who have expressed their frustrations...don't say I didn't tell you. I love this shard n don't want to see it ruined.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:01 pm 
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Redrumsback wrote:
You can continue listening too the board trolls and making changes.....changes are going to cause you to loss veteran players... I already know a few of the core guilds who have expressed their frustrations...don't say I didn't tell you. I love this shard n don't want to see it ruined.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:09 pm 
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vkamicht wrote:
Jimmy Jakes wrote:
The reason people liked T2A so much wasn't because of the bandage cutting, the mount fatigue, and exp pots, or the cartography or even the requirement to taste ID potions before knowing what they were.


OK, so give some input as to what more needs to be added for people to "like T2A" instead of making posts like this? Head on over to the suggestion forum and make some suggestions. Personally, I rarely PvM, I even more rarely PvP, I'm at that point where I look for more original and unique ways to enjoy the game (and no, I don't mean crafting.) I also like changes like this because they help improve the overall vibe of the shard to be that of what it should be. UO is UO because of everything put together, not a tweaked PvP system and call it a day.



I don't PvP much, I mostly PvM and craft. So I am not giving too much thought to the pvp tweaks because most of the complaining about PvP changes are from the 1337 PVPERS PWNING ALL, of whom we are lucky we don't have many.

My point is, when my friend told me about this shard, he did not say, "Omg man, you gotta get on this shard, it's awesome because you have to cut bandages one by one and the mounts buck u off a lot!" He told me the good things. That's what drew me here. He told me how the PvP is era accurate, it's not UO:R, the spawns and items are era accurate. Those are the things I love about OSI T2A. Why are the small things that actually hurt gameplay, the things that are being focused on when some guy posts it on the forums?

The problem is, the only suggestions I see from people that get implemented are the various and sundry extremely obscure, small accuracy bits that really only, in my opinion, adversely affect the gameplay. So I just wish those could be left out, as they are not what made T2A great.

My other problem is the veterans literally LOLing in the #secondage channel on IRC because now half the shard's players who don't have GM carto, now need their help for level five treasure maps. And then we are being told to screw off because we are complaining about some of the changes on the shard, when the veterans who are telling us to screw off, were the ones who had it easy before many changes were made in patches. I dislike being told to go to AI or some other crap, underpopulated shard just because I don't like the changes here. It's like being told, "Shut up, no one listens to you here." If I wanted to play on Angel Island, I'd be playing there.

A big factor of a free shard's success is what it offers to the players, and another big factor is how well the devs listen to the players in feedback. This includes veterans helping out newer players, not laughing in glee when they realize that half the shard's t-hunters are going to need them for level 5's. Everyone seems to have their own interests in mind when they point out some apparently glaring era inaccuracy that really doesn't need to be changed at all because players won't like it, just like they didn't like it in REAL OSI T2A before it was changed by the devs.

That said, I really respect Derrick for what he is doing with the shard overall, offering a playable piece of MMO history to veteran UO players and giving us most of what we loved about the old, OSI UO before EA morphed it into some horrible amalgam of crap and afterbirth that can only be described as a blight on the MMO market. Derrick doesn't have to be paying for and keeping a server up so hundreds of players can enjoy this shard, but he is, and for the most part, people aren't having to pay for it. I am willing to monetarily contribute to the shard if it means that my voice and the voices of others can be heard when we dislike certain pointless, meaningless changes that are made for the sake of making them. The bottom line is, I love this shard, I appreciate Derrick for allowing us to play here, but I would also like it if some of these needless changes were removed.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:22 pm 
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We try not to focus on things that make things miserable for players i assure you; way more time has been put into items like the NPC speech engine which has been a huge missing element, than the things mentioned above; we are trying to make all systems accurate though without bias. Some of the trouble with cartography as mentioned above is going to be evaluated, it's certainly not going to be impossible to GM carto, as it was not impossible on OSI to do so either.

It doesn't reflect well on the shard of course to have veteran players "literally LOLing in the #secondage channel on IRC..." but the issue here is the actual mechanics, not the fantasies of a few players in IRC.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 117 - Oct 3, 2009: Fatigue, Taste ID, Treasure maps...
PostPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:21 pm 
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Derrick wrote:
We try not to focus on things that make things miserable for players i assure you...


I call foul on this one.

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