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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:32 pm 
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After 10 hours fishing today, I got 8 MIBs.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:36 pm 
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I set out fishing again this morning 2 GM fishermen

[09:46] Start fishing
[09:51] Water Ellie
[10:03] Water Ellie
[10:10] MIB Fisher #2
[10:25] MIB Fisher #1
[10:34] MIB Fisher #2
[10:50] MIB Fisher #2
[12:03] MIB Fisher #1
[12:15] Map Fisher #1
[12:21] MIB Fisher #2
[12:31] Map Fisher #1
[12:50] Map Fisher #1
[12:50] Map Fisher #2
[13:02] Water Ellie
[13:09] Water Ellie
[13:23] Water Ellie
[13:43] Map Fisher #2

Map and MIB Spawn compaired to last night are Speratic .. but passible
however 4 hours of fishing and I Never Saw One Sea Serpent (both days)

will try again this evening

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:48 pm 
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been fishing whit 2 char GM fisher ...

3h

and i get ...

1 MiB
1 Tmap

:( no luck for me i guess :( crappy !


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:50 pm 
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lastdragon wrote:
been fishing whit 2 char GM fisher ...

3h

and i get ...

1 MiB
1 Tmap

:( no luck for me i guess :( crappy !


any serpents? water Ellies?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:00 pm 
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Rendar wrote:
Quote:
Accidently raising it to 5 per hour without documentation is not era accurate.


I just want to touch on this. Going to have to go ahead and disagree here. I don't think anybody was getting 5 MiB's/hr. The day prior to the patch I fished all day at work. I scored something like 15 MiB's over an 8 hour day. That works out to about 1.8/hr. That is a long way from 5/hr. Now, you can see the forumula's and we can't. All we can go on is how this actually "plays out" in game.

Prior to the patch I was getting 1-3 MiB's/hr. Which, seems reasonable.

Post patch, people are saying they are getting like 1-2 every 5-7/hours, which seems unreasonable.

Even if the spawn rate was 1-2/hr, I think that would be reasonable. The problem is, people aren't getting anywhere near that. Once I get into work I am going to get my guy setup and continue tracking & see how he makes out today. But, I think it's very obvious to everyone involved that "this needs to be tweaked". My suggestion, in the interest of fairness is to revert the Fishing changes until the kinks can be worked out. Just my 2 cents.


id have to agree with this i was never getting 5 in 1 hour, a 1.8 average on long fishing trips sounds more about right on a good day and would still have dry spells for over a hour at times

so my first 3.4 hours i got nothing this was right after the server went up yesterday then i slept for few hours and did another hour got 1 map 1 mib then another hour and 0 maps 0 mibs then another hour of 0 map 1 mib (this mib came like 3m into the next hour really) then 0 / 0 then i gave up

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:52 pm 
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Derrick wrote:
Yes I'm interested in ensuring that it's correct; but I felt a need to address the comment above that it wasn't accurate to make this change. I will continue to monitor this myself and we will tweak if necessary. Mathematically it's one per hour now, but at max fishing speed. which may be somewhat presumptuous. We will likely make some tweaks to this as we receive more information, these tweaks will likely not be posted as a patch note every time we make one. The goal is one per hour.

The deal with the serpent spawns is that it's just a gigantic ocean :/ I will try to increase.


I think it is unfair and drastic to make the change you did WITHOUT consulting with US the fisherman.

You test PvP changes and get input from the PvPers on changes to their stuff, so why not us the fisherman?

How about ask us what kinda of pull rates we currently get per hour per fisherman etc. gather some realistic data first before just hauling off and making a change that apparently is pretty drastic.


Pre-patch, with 3 GM fisherman I was pulling 3-4 mibs per hour for all 3 guys. This 5 per hour is totally bogus I think as I have fished for literally hundreds of hours and never once seen that kind of pull rate.

First opportunity i get I will be testing out an 8-10 hour fishing run, but I can't pull one this week due to work.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:30 pm 
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akumaizer wrote:
I GMd fishing approximately two weeks ago. I was inspired by Daolin's 'Fishing success' post he made over a year ago and immediately started fishing in one hour increments, documenting the MIBs and T-Maps I fished up in each. Through 4/11, I had fished for 15 individual hours pulling up a total of 21 MIBs, which averages to 1.4 an hour. One of the awesome and frustrating things about fishing for MIBs is how much it varies. I recorded 5 in an hour once, 3 in another, but 0 in 4 of those hours.

Obviously the following isn't any evidence at all because there are bad days, but today I fished for two straight hours. After not getting any MIBs at all, I quit for the day disappointed. I will continue to monitor throughout the week. I hope fishing isn't ruined.

I understand that my 15 hours is not a complete sample. 1.4 is above 1 per hour of course, but not by that much. If the rate was reduced I'm curious how much it was reduced by.


I'm in the same boat, pun intended, as akumaizer. I JUST GM'd fishing late last week and have had a few days of fishing and saw the benefits of it. In addition to what akumaizer said, I did this due to other people's success stories with it so I've been spending most of my time trying to GM two characters, as well as their other skills for this.

Seems like a waste now. I just fished for an hour and got one T-map.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:02 pm 
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When I was actively fishing 5months or so ago, I was getting 1 MIB + 1 Map per hour. Almost exactly. I was unaware of the recent(?) increse in pull rates.

As for era accuracy:
Quote:
Tests show that a Grandmaster Fisherman pulls up an SOS message in a bottle about once per hour. To reach that he has to fish non-stop, which means he has to cast about 280 times per hour.

http://web.archive.org/web/199911160409 ... ishing.htm

Even at 360 casts per hour, that would still only be 1.29 MIBs per hour.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:12 pm 
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I think what gripes my ass the most is the ninja patch and nerf, VERY OSI like, where as anything PvP related is talked into the ground......

I would be much more OK with an adjustment IF there was some prior discussion and imput from people who actually fish and fish A LOT!

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:19 pm 
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Brules wrote:
I would be much more OK with an adjustment IF there was some prior discussion and imput from people who actually fish and fish A LOT!


It sounds like it wasn't discussed because it was a correction to an accidental change that took place some time ago. If the change was that significant (which it appears to have been) a discussion would have been nice. Regardless, I agree it should have been mentioned in the patch notes and not ninja'd.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:11 pm 
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Rammar wrote:
Brules wrote:
I would be much more OK with an adjustment IF there was some prior discussion and imput from people who actually fish and fish A LOT!


It sounds like it wasn't discussed because it was a correction to an accidental change that took place some time ago. If the change was that significant (which it appears to have been) a discussion would have been nice. Regardless, I agree it should have been mentioned in the patch notes and not ninja'd.


Well virtually 0 evidence has been brought forth to show that #'s were off, as pretty much everyone in here has verified an avg of 1 per hour before this nerf, and it is now less than 1 per hour and to even get close to 1 per hour you have to fish 300+ times. It was 1 per hour before, and now even less, which doesn't seem to be era accurate.

As I said before I fished hundreds of hours with 3 GM fishermen and avg'd 3 per hour over and over and over for all 3 guys.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:48 pm 
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Brules wrote:
Well virtually 0 evidence has been brought forth to show that #'s were off, as pretty much everyone in here has verified an avg of 1 per hour before this nerf, and it is now less than 1 per hour and to even get close to 1 per hour you have to fish 300+ times. It was 1 per hour before, and now even less, which doesn't seem to be era accurate.


Hardly strong evidence, but it sounds like several people in this thread were pulling significantly more than 1 per hour. If the reported numbers are correct, it does sound like it may have been over-corrected though. I'd like to see some numbers over a several day span (eg. 50+ fishing hours).

Rendar wrote:
Prior to the patch I was getting 1-3 MiB's/hr. Which, seems reasonable.


iamreallysquall wrote:
a 1.8 average on long fishing trips sounds more about right on a good day and would still have dry spells for over a hour at times


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:40 pm 
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All of these "I got 1 MIB per hour" claims are invalid to begin with. There are too many variations in fishing frequency, location, and skill, to use any of this anecdotal evidence as fact.

Some people fish faster/slower than others based on their macro or connection. Possibly even the number of clients running.

The location of the sailing play's a part because in certain instances you may have to change course, stop, or turn around, removing from the time spent fishing. Not all fishing paths from these samples have proved identical.

Not every fisherman (particularly in 99) had the same skill, which obviously plays a part in chance.

That being said, people have a natural tendancy to over exaggerate numbers, especially when reporting them to their respected online community. I don't see the point in claiming that your GM fisherman pulls more/less than the next guy, but it's human nature. Once one person starts on a bandwagon, and others have personal interest, it gets out of hand rather quickly.

I don't think anything should be changing based on an in-game trial, conducted by a player. Likewise, a non formal study conducted in era, by various individuals on a message board should be taken with a grain of salt.

You should all be focusing on what the percentage of pulling up a MIB (or whatever) is, on each individual attempt, as that is something that perhaps Derrick can use to make adjustments.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:52 pm 
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MatronDeWinter wrote:
I don't think anything should be changing based on an in-game trial, conducted by a player. Likewise, a non formal study conducted in era, by various individuals on a message board should be taken with a grain of salt.


Unless you have a better source, the only in-era data we have to go on are those "informal studies" taken from in-game. Seeing as the source data was taken in-game, it seems reasonable to contrast it against in-game data now.

MatronDeWinter wrote:
You should all be focusing on what the percentage of pulling up a MIB (or whatever) is, on each individual attempt, as that is something that perhaps Derrick can use to make adjustments.


We can't do that without in game trial.

The stratics link I posted earlier had 1 MIB and 280 casts per hour. So 1/280 ~= 0.36% mib/cast. However, Stratics considered 280 casts/hour "non-stop" whereas 400 casts/hour here is not difficult. So to be in-line with that article 1/400 = 0.25% mib/cast would be more appropriate.

Also, is our fishing delay accurate? 280 casts/hour is nearly 13 sec between casts. 4-5 seconds difference seems like more than just latency.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 128 - April 14 2010: Fishing, Spawns
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:31 am 
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Fishing has been nerfed drastically. This is my second post regarding this issue and this patch. I have spent over 30 hours in game fishing since the patch and I can say that mibs and maps are more than rare. The only good thing to come of the patch is the water eles and serps. I see them in the North East seas more frequently and they are very aggressive. Other than that I really see no point logging in with my fisherman. Another 5 plus hours fishing today to have 1 mib and 2 maps, it is now a waste to even try to fish, good job on the nerf.


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