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 Post subject: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:49 am 
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  • Tamed animals with no order should now behave properly.
  • Cutting cloth, bandages, etc can no longer cause the produced items to stack on a floor above or below the players position.
  • Missed Arrows which cannot fit on the floor will be deleted.
  • When items dragged from a stack "bounce" back to their original location, for whatever reason, those items will now rejoin the stack they were dragged from, instead of being placed at the base of it.
    • This was especially a problem in banks, in which reagents would bounce back to the bank on top of the stack they were dragged from, sometimes increasing the count of bank contents beyond 125 or otherwise making a mess of extra items.
  • Refinements and optimizations to the way items are loaded in a house, and in other dense areas when the items in the area are excessive.
    • This should prevent the crashing of clients when the number of items is extreme.
    • Please remember that malicious cause of client lag by purposely carpet bombing areas to excess is still a bannable offense.
  • Stacked item bouncing: (Thanks Malice)
    • Items which are dropped to a tile and will not fit should now always bounce back to their origin instead of placing at the minimum height of that tile.
  • Boat Keys will always be added to bank when the ship is launched, even if bank is full.
  • Fixed double charge consumption on first application of enchanted clothing and jewelry (Thanks Mikel123 and Sandro)
  • Some bugs with archery were fixed in which archery was inheriting some of the less desirable properties of melee weapons (yet none of the good ones of course). Many players contributed to finding these bugs. Thanks!
  • Jeweler and Weaver clothing which were inheriting a verified OSI bug were corrected, as research has shown that OSI also corrected this bug at some point themselves.
  • Pets now maintain a complete record of their owners, now including the player which purchased them from the stable.(Thanks Nightshark and Dagon)
    • This effects the retame difficulty for purchased and released animals, being the same as if they were tamed and released.
  • Dire wolves will no longer leave behind the corpse of a Silver Wolf. (Thanks Sandro)
  • Fix for lightning spell bolt effect not being visible to the caster. (Thanks Atraxi and Psilo)
  • Pets can no longer be stabled outside the range of the animal trainer. It was previously possible to carry the stable target across the map to stable an animal.
  • Magic Crystal Balls can now (again) be used when locked down in a house.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:19 pm 
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Great patch, the item stacking issues annoyed me a great deal.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:28 pm 
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What do you mean by less desireable effects, on archery patch, im confused.
I honestly didn't know that era accuracy had anything to do with desire...

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:04 am 
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Guerrilla wrote:
What do you mean by less desireable effects, on archery patch, im confused.
I honestly didn't know that era accuracy had anything to do with desire...


Perhaps.. you misread what he said..

Quote:
Some bugs with archery were fixed in which archery was inheriting some of the less desirable properties of melee weapons (yet none of the good ones of course). Many players contributed to finding these bugs. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:08 pm 
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Indeed. One of the issues was in timing, it may be found that there is slightly less delay on the bow.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:54 pm 
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Regarding the Archery adjustments, nothing states explicitly what is included, so I'll reiterate one flaw that still seems to recur with annoying frequency:

"Lost" auto-defend:

I tested this specifically the other evening (post-patch) with one of my archer characters; about one-third of the time, auto-defend operates normally; the remainder follows this precise "pathology":

1.) Character, not in War Mode and with bow pre-equipped, encounters an aggressive monster and stops moving completely;
2.) Monster then aggros on Character, but Character does not shoot (the monster's action should generate an auto-defend attack; this does not occur); even though character does not move, no defensive fire is ever conducted: the mob sashays right on up "toe-to-toe", without the Character firing even once;
3.) Character moves away, and stops, and the above simply continues; unless the Character "artificially" breaks the cycle, there is only a "remote possibility" that the monster's next aggro (every two minutes, or whatever the timer is) will actually trigger any auto-defend attacks.

Particularly with a bow, this renders the "pre-loaded" feature of the attack-speed-timer rather useless; combined with the rather hefty re-equip timer, bow-usage continues to be extremely frustrating right now.

I have been forced to "artificially" break the cycle by:

A) Entering War Mode and double-clicking target (um, duh);
B) Without entering War Mode, casting a spell on the target mob, then re-equipping; auto-defend will work normally again (with the normal delays);

I haven't attempted, but suspect this might work also,
C) Without entering War Mode, actively "painting" the target mob with a skill (like Anatomy or Evaluate Int).

I had thought perhaps that what was happening was this:

When auto-defend was initiated, perhaps the mob was out-of-range, and the attack timer began to cycle all over again from scratch; however, I should then fire on schedule at the completion of the next loop, which doesn't happen; also, solution A) always generates an attack immediately, which should not be the case if the reason why I didn't attack on auto-defend was because the attack timer was cycling between preparation states (I would still have to satisfy the attack timer, regardless of auto-defend or WarMode+ManualTargetting) ...

Now, I do not know the design of the algorithm, but I suspect something like this:

1)Auto-Defend triggers a "can-we-attack?" check, which receives a "no" (say, because target is out of range), and trips a flag accordingly;
2)This flag does not "reset when it should" (say, when target enters range), but remains in "no" mode regardless of how conditions change, until some other event (one of solutions A-C, above, or the mob's "re-attack" timer) calls for the "can-we-attack?" check again.

Those who can examine the actual code can perhaps pin this down more precisely. I certainly hope so.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:24 pm 
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I didn't read the entire post, but you know that you cannot insta-hit with archery right..?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:30 pm 
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I'm not quite sure what he is exactly trying to say myself.

Would you care to elaborate on your response a little further wyrm?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:39 pm 
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Auto defend was working before the patch and I assume still is.

I know this because someone attacked Kevin's red while in Brit basement, causing him to auto defend shoot an arrow into the G-zone and get G-whacked. (cheapness)

Edit: Also to add, I just tested archery and it seems the equip delay has been shortened :). But shots can still be completely avoided by off screening or stepping out of the LOS :(.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:57 pm 
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What will happen if you cut cloth on the ground? It currently stacks into a pile, will it now stack 1 bandage on top of each other?

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:50 pm 
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It behaves as it used to, as far as I can tell. It makes 1 bandage, then the second and subsequent ones get added to the stack right on top of the cloth.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:51 pm 
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In regards to the autodefend, it should not matter what weapon you are holding, when anything attacks you it highlights to you, generally turning a grey hue and that indicates you have that creature/player as a combatant. You will try to attack this combatant cyclically if he is in range based on what weapon you are carrying. If the creature is highlighted grey to you you should continue trying to fire at him if you have ammo and he is in range.

son wrote:
What will happen if you cut cloth on the ground? It currently stacks into a pile, will it now stack 1 bandage on top of each other?
Previously cutting a bolt of cloth (or bandage) on the ground could stack to combine with another pile of cloth (or bandage)on the floor of the house above the one you were standing on if the items were of the same type color and name. This will no longer happen, if there is no existing pile, a new pile will be created on the floor which you are on. The mechanism for stacking is the same, the difference is a matter of what piles can be selected to hold the new item. Also, new piles cannot be created in place if there are too many items in that location, in the case of cloth and bandages and other newly created items, the items will fall to the tile you are standing on (and begin a new stack there); in other cases of existing items, the items if dropped will bounce back to their previous location or stack.

tl;dr: no.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:08 pm 
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Faust wrote:
I'm not quite sure what he is exactly trying to say myself.

Would you care to elaborate on your response a little further wyrm?


Maybe it is, indeed, my expectations that are flawed; these are my expectations, according to the procedure I used to test this flaw that I think I perceive:

  • equip bow, exit house;
  • patrol the neighbourhood and locate any mob that is naturally aggressive;
  • stop completely and wait for mob to activate auto-defend by aggroing onto me;
  • watch my character shoot it.

That very last bit is the bit that only occurs about one-third of the time; the rest of the time, without the intervention of "artificial measures", there is no shot, and potentially never will be; I've kited around the same Mongbat for several minutes before, eventually, one of it's "shrieks" does indeed activate auto-defend. By "kiting", I mean this: gallop off a half-dozen-or-so tiles and then, again, stop moving completely until the mob moves up to me again.

If I'm already actively shooting something that takes more than one hit to kill, I stop, shoot (wait-for-impact), move, stop, shoot (w-f-i), move: this is what I call, "normal"; active-targetting in War Mode always initiates this behaviour, while auto-defend most often does not.

If I employ any of the artificial measures to which I've referred, above, shooting then continues normally from that point forward: tabbing into War Mode and double-clicking the target mob results in an instantly-launched shot; if I "paint" the mob with a spell, but do not tab into War Mode, auto-defend will afterwards begin to behave normally (but, of course, I have to wait for the timers to cycle from scratch); I have not yet tried to "paint" any mob with an active skill, like Anat or Eval, largely because I do not have the use of any of these hotkeyed (my hotkeys are for combat stuff) but, in any event, I shouldn't have to ...

This "state of affairs" is something that really messes-up my Archer-Mage's "Auto-defend Combos", but also makes it a pain for my "purer" archers, particularly if I'm also trying to kite around multiple mobs ...

I hope I've explained this adequately. Maybe I need to add that this "behaviour" was not happening a couple of months ago, before the weapons-revision patches were published.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:17 pm 
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SighelmofWyrmgard wrote:
eventually, one of it's "shrieks" does indeed activate auto-defend. By "kiting", I mean this: gallop off a half-dozen-or-so tiles and then, again, stop moving completely until the mob moves up to me again.

I think what's happening here is that the creature is not attacking you, but is acquiring you. Only an attack will initiate auto-defend, and he will let out a little "shriek" when he attacks. You should notice that this is the point at which he becomes a grey hue. No mobile can attack you if they cannot see you, or if they are out of range of you; however this does not mean they cannot follow you around, trying to attack once in a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 137: Pet aggressiveness, Item stacking, Misc.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:14 pm 
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Derrick wrote:
SighelmofWyrmgard wrote:
eventually, one of it's "shrieks" does indeed activate auto-defend. By "kiting", I mean this: gallop off a half-dozen-or-so tiles and then, again, stop moving completely until the mob moves up to me again.

I think what's happening here is that the creature is not attacking you, but is acquiring you. Only an attack will initiate auto-defend, and he will let out a little "shriek" when he attacks. You should notice that this is the point at which he becomes a grey hue. No mobile can attack you if they cannot see you, or if they are out of range of you; however this does not mean they cannot follow you around, trying to attack once in a while.


With regards to hue... I'd suggest in the Options tab of your paperdoll, changing the hue of "criminal" to something other than gray. For me, I use orange since I'm not in any guilds and no one will ever otherwise be orange to me.

If you do this, Derrick is saying that as long as the monster is gray ("attackable"), you won't autodefend. But if it's orange (meaning it has essentially double-clicked on you, an innocent, making it turn criminal) then you should autodefend and shoot at it.

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