Patch 64 - Oct 9, 2008

[Derrick]

The dbl hally hit thing is applicable to dexers as well as mages.
I'd be happy to take more feedback on the more accurate healing timers, essentially #3 with pre-cast is what we had.

[venox]

well i did like the system you had b4 this.

and if it falls within the t2a range i dont see why its wouldnt be t2a ligit.

[Faust]

If you rely soley on bandages you're gonna die no matter what. "An nox" and problem solved. Just because you're in the process of "curing" it doens't mean you can't chug a cure potion or cast cure and let the bandage heal since you're no longer poisoned. This is what all dexers did back in the day. It's a common sense strategy. The timer has not changed at all. The only thing that has changed is the modification dex did to the timer that only added a 5s difference "if" you had a 100 dex. The strategy for a dexer is no different than it was before this patch.

[Mor'Sereg]

"ONLY" added a 5 second difference? I'd rather heal myself in 10seconds than 15! The strategy may be the same for a dexxer, but you have to deal with it taking longer to heal. It may be accurate but for a warrior, that totally sucks in 1 vs 1 situations. But, aftera week or so people will stop bitching or convert their dexxers to tank mages. System before was better but not accurate ;p

[BloodyBandage]

People get caught up on categorizing every template and skill. Being a "Pure Dexer" isn't a class you pick from the create a Character screen. Just as picking a "Pure Mage" isn't a class you pick from the create a Character screen either. We all know what you mean by Pure Dexer but a Pure Mage is just as disadvantaged (think mage with no weapon hit); granted it's possible to play and adds a different dynamic similar to a Pure Dexer but it was never viable to win consistently in a 1 on 1 situation. I played many characters during t2a but was very successful with a parry macer that had 65 magery. I had full plate and a shield. I would use my magery to survive dumps and cure poison. I think a character in full plate, shield and weapon is still considered to be a "dexer". In fact any Character with more dexterity than mana should be considered a "Dexer" if we want to be technical. If you have healing what gives Dexers the exclusive rights to the skill? We should start calling you "Healers". Do you see how dumb it is to pigeon hole your character by the labels "Dexer" and "Mage"? I have a character with Parry, Magery, and Healing...besides an abomination (lol) what would you call that? Stop limiting yourselves based on these labels, and please keep in mind this is accurate. Derrick and Faust have shown the Patch notes and I remember all my dexers that had minimal magery were extremely effective. I also had an Archery Dexer with no Magery that I used for field fighting. Play to your strengths. Understand your template will have weaknesses as well. This does make Dex less effective for One skill - healing, but it does not change how fast you can swing your weapon. With the minimum of 25 mana (which all Pure Dexers still have), one can gheal twice and cure once before running out of mana. A "Dexer" with 2 gheals and a cure poison in a tournmanet is a scary thing. Ask any mage and they will tell you it's disheartening to see a guy unequip a shield and gheal away his 40 mana (Exp, Ebolt). The game isn't dexer heaven or mage heaven. It is simply a mixture of skills/stats that a player wants to utilize. Like my previous writeup on popular templates - there is no way to play the game, just certain ways that were more effective. If you want to be a "Pure Dexer" or a "Pure Mage" kudos to you but don't expect to beat a template that plays to multiple strengths.

[Mor'Sereg]

My gripe, and others, was that a dexxer without magery was completely viable 1vs1 vs. a tank mage and is MUCH less so now. We've been playing these non-magery templates for months now and of course your going to get some complaints. I'm already over it having slept well last night and I'll convert mine to a tank mage in the next couple days

[Berginyon]

Sure wish I would have read this before last night. I was counting on my aid to go off at the same time it had been going off, it did not, i died! Oh well, now I know. Yet another reason for me to stick to killing monsters!

[venox]

a mage template is completelly different to a dexxer.
where a mage fill up all the essentials with 5 skills and has two left over.
a dexxer could use over 7!!!!
and all that stuff you have written doesnt change the significance of a 5second increase on healing.

[~|~Damaja]

you bastards! I've tried to get that bandage system in since I started with insanely negative feedback and resistance from the population. Even though I provided the same proof since the beginning as well haha good to see it finally put in

[Faust]

The point he is trying to make is that a "pure mage", which consists of Magery, Meditation, Eval, Resist, Wrestling, Healing, and Anatomy has severe disadvantages compared to a "pure dexer". In all honesty I don't see how it is even physically possible to kill a tank mage as a pure mage.

Now let's look at a "pure dexer". I take it that this means a dexer without magery. I am still amazed that someone would actually even pvp with such a character on a t2a server but maybe that is just me. If you side with Combat Skill, Tactics, Anatomy, Healing, Resist, Parry, and who knows what else besides Magery... If he were to fight his counter part that being a "regular dexer". Who do you think would win? If the dexer with parry loses I would severely feel sorry for that individual, especially since he should have magery to "cure" himself or "poison" his combatant.

How is this a disadvantage for anyone? Personally, to me I see a "pure mage" being the most disadvantage. At least a "pure dexer" has a good chance to kill his counter part.

I won't even comment on any dexer vs a tank mage, since that is no different than it was before in strategy. At least this would be the case only if any dexer had magery. If they do not have magery I would feel sorry for any mage that has lost to one. If you're a dexer that has no magery than you should simply get it if you're intending to pvp. By no means should a dexer ever not have 50+ magery.

you bastards! I've tried to get that bandage system in since I started with insanely negative feedback and resistance from the population. Even though I provided the same proof since the beginning as well haha good to see it finally put in

It completely makes sense to use this new healing system. The goal of the shard is to be T2A era accurate. The previous healing system was implemented after pre-casting was removed for the upcoming UOR publish. How anyone would consider that being T2A is past me. If you even go by patch standards the previous healing system was only in place for a month and a half before UOR was released. The new healing system was active a little over nine months. How anyone could even possibly think about using that system on a t2a shard is completely absurd. I understand the reasoning for wanting the system. However, this is a t2a shard, not a mixed T2A/UOR cocktail.

[~|~Damaja]

you guys don't be ridiculous and "convert" your dexxers... jesus. Dexxers without magery and these bandage timers worked back then it was just absolutely necessary to have pots with you to survive a mage fight but was never ever the best template. Back in the day my warrior had magery just forthe sole purpose of healing/curing cause I couldnt always afford pots... all my offense was still melee based. He owned mages when played properly.

2 things that scare me about this era accurate pvp that need to be done to make it accurate and would balance it alot are

- the spell recovery timer reverted back to the proper .75
- last weapon equiped didn't determine your next swing timer no matter what you are holding. Everything needs to load at its proper delay timer. This is allowing far more and faster hally hits then you could really do. Something is amiss here with that coding

[~|~Damaja]

you bastards! I've tried to get that bandage system in since I started with insanely negative feedback and resistance from the population. Even though I provided the same proof since the beginning as well haha good to see it finally put in

It completely makes sense to use this new healing system. The goal of the shard is to be T2A era accurate. The previous healing system was implemented after pre-casting was removed for the upcoming UOR publish. How anyone would consider that being T2A is past me. If you even go by patch standards the previous healing system was only in place for a month and a half before UOR was released. The new healing system was active a little over nine months. How anyone could even possibly think about using that system on a t2a shard is completely absurd. I understand the reasoning for wanting the system. However, this is a t2a shard, not a mixed T2A/UOR cocktail.

I know man I'm agreeing with you if you look at my post history from when I first started here you'll see many posts where I was stating the exact same things you are now I'm just bitter it got changed now when I was fighting along time for this. But glad someone could get it done because it makes total sense

[Faust]

I know that you are Damaja. I was simply reiterating the reasoning behind it for everyone that continues complaining about it. It sucks that you had to deal with it this long. I knew it was off the first day I started macroing combat skills.

Also, about what you said involving the last weapon equipped. Does that determine your swing timer, or did you mean to say the last weapon delay determined it? By default RunUO is coded to convert your weapon delay to the current weapon that was equipped. The default is definitely not correct. Someone can simply equip a katana after you hit with a hally to convert the delay to that of a katana and than wait that out and you can swing again.

[Derrick]

Aye, on the weapon swing I've heard this proposal before but there's only two logical ways to implement swing timers, either the swing timer starts when you swing or it is checked when you equip. On the prior you can swing a kat, and then bring up your hally after your kat time expires, and on the latter, you can swing a hally and then bring up a kat, in either case the time between the two swings is the katana delay time, and in both cases you'd have to wait our the hally swing before you could swing that weapon again, if you're alternating weapons, the damage dealt over time is going to be exactly the same.

[~|~Damaja]

well what I was noticing since day one playing here was i was able to get off alot more hally hits then I was expecting to. The main problem that I found after testing with someone was the previous wep (including wrestling) determines what your next wep delay is no matter how fast or slow that next wep is. The reason I think this is wrong is making someone wrestle was a tactic in preUOR pvp. You could break up their spell, hit combo by charging them and making them wrestle thus resetting their hally timer back to 4.75 seconds. As I was pvping here I realized it didn't matter that you just made someone wrestle because their hally hit is going to come up in 1.5seconds?(whatever wrestle timer is) anyways so it wasn't much of a deterant.

Just another one of those things that felt off about the pvp here compared to 1999 pvp. I meant to bring it up alot earlier Derrick but I was bringing up so much stuff at the time I was going to wait until you said you were working on the weapon swings. That was of course when I went away and the new system was implemented already

I hope this sheds some light as to what I'm trying to say.

oh ya .75 spell recov