Patch 77 - December 24, 2008: Spells, Pathfinding, Stealing

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Downtown
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Re: Patch 77 - December 24, 2008: Spells, Pathfinding, Stealing

Post by Downtown »

Let me get this straight. (I'm not a thief)

A thief steals from me. He stays blue to me or turns grey, whatever. He has performed an aggressive action against me. I attack him in town. He kills me. I can count him? I believe the answer to that question is yes, to my understanding of the new mechanic. If that's true, that's crazy. I know that is NOT how it was during like... publish 15 (during UOR) because there were PvP thieves that I remember, who would have been counted and removed from the guild... or turned red... but they weren't because they didn't receive counts for killing people that attacked them first.

How about this...

What if the thief steals from me and I kill myself in the next, say, 20 seconds? Can I give him a murder count? Won't a single murder count remove him from the thieves guild? That sounds extremely lame.



I just had a conversation with a early 2000 thief, (probably UOR) and he says the following:

When you stole from someone you turn "Grey" to them everytime, but you won't
always FLAG as grey. That depends on your skill level. If you don't
"notice" them stealing from you, then they won't be the COLOR grey, but you
can attack them if you know to.

If you steal from someone and they attack you, and you kill them, NO it is
not countable. That's just like if you're a blue and you attack a normal
grey, and the grey kills the blue, that's not countable.

And no, stealing is not in the same aggressive category as just attacking
someone, for the purpose of counting.

Finally, if you steal from someone, and remain flagged as blue...you're
perma-grey until you die. Which is why thieves would have the poisoned
food. Steal from someone, bank it as a blue (because you're not flagged as
grey, even though you're perma) and then take a poisoned bread into the
woods or something and suicide to get rid of the perma.

(His information is early UO:R period)

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Faust
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Re: Patch 77 - December 24, 2008: Spells, Pathfinding, Stealing

Post by Faust »

Here are all three resources below in one post to validate this change once more. I decided to list this so that people visiting this thread doesn't have to siphon through every single post to find all the sources involved with this change.
- UOHOC Chat Log - February, 1999

Glamdring - *Naja_Haje* Hail...Sorry if this has been asked (late ) Anything on rogues being able to use lethal force to defend themselves?Seems odd that a half dead newbie could attack me outta town and i'll get kicked out of the thieves guild because i couldn't move away fast enough...
DesignerD - OK, I assume you mean a PvP thief type, not a generic "rogue" right? A thief that is in the Thieves' Guild.
DesignerD - In this scenario (outside of town) you have a Thieves Guild member attacked. The TG guy cannot report murder, nor can he murder.
DesignerD - But since he hasn't just stolen, the attacker is flagged aggressor, and therefore cannot report EITHER. So the TGmember does not take a murder count.
DesignerD - Note that if the thief had just stolen from someone, then they could attack him & NOT be flagged aggressor, thus leading to a murder count for the thief, if he killed them. In the case of fights right after stealing, the thief *HAS* to run away or else grovel & beg forgiveness and hope the fight breaks off.
Stratics in the year 2000 confirms the same above in a stealing guide. I don't have access to it right now but it is listed under "the thief" article in the Professions section of the web site.
Publish 16 - PvP and Felucca enhancements Jul 23 2002 11:37AM CST

Stealing will no longer be considered an aggressive act, although it will continue to be a criminal act (players will not be able to report a thief for murder if they attack the thief but lose the fight). This applies to all of Felucca.
There are no patch notes that indicate the addition of murder counts toward thieves if they killed their victim they stole from that attacked the thief, but my memory on this is very precise on when and how it worked. It occurred during the major thieving changes in early '99 with the complete revamp of how thieves worked. It is clear above in the publish 16 patch notes that reporting thieves for murder if they killed thier victimes did in fact exist and collaborate the other sources used for this change.

Most people remembering this seem to be getting different era's and time frames mixed up from all the changes and reverts. Stealing and killing was a prime feature of pre-t2a and after publish 16(can only assume this part since I never played since it was in the past). Stealing was considered an aggressive act in between February '99 and July '02.

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Re: Patch 77 - December 24, 2008: Spells, Pathfinding, Stealing

Post by mrbojangles »

So can we be given any general timeline for when the stealing changes will be fixed and reimplemented?
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Derrick
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Re: Patch 77 - December 24, 2008: Spells, Pathfinding, Stealing

Post by Derrick »

As soon as possible. It's been a busy few days. Hopefully this week.

Hyder
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Re: Patch 77 - December 24, 2008: Spells, Pathfinding, Stealing

Post by Hyder »

OK I just got lost after reading Derricks post.

So is it going back to how it was a few days ago? (Thieves can defend themselves and not take a murder count). I really hope this is the case. So much fun killing Thieves at the GY. If the is no more thieves, I will be really sad.

Or is it going to the new system where u totally ruin a great templete. I say since both were in this era.. put it to a vote. Let the masses decide.

1 vote to leave thieves how they were.

There are pleanty banks in UO to avoid thieves... U go to brit to find and kill them.. If you make these changes none will play and ruin a great thing.

Sorry for my spelling, English is not my first language.

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Faust
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Re: Patch 77 - December 24, 2008: Spells, Pathfinding, Stealing

Post by Faust »

There was a bug with the stealing changes so it was reverted not too long after this patch. The stealing changes will be fixed according to how it is suppose to work after this patch soon. Just like many other changes on here you can't simply just vote on something like this. If you were to keep it to how it was that means every other feature after the thieves guild implementation would have to be also be removed to be considered accurate. This includes insta hit and many other t2a features. I don't really think that is an option.

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Derrick
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Re: Patch 77 - December 24, 2008: Spells, Pathfinding, Stealing

Post by Derrick »

Thieving changes now live on TestCenter:
http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic. ... 28&p=29335

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