Patch 77 - December 24, 2008: Spells, Pathfinding, Stealing

[Ebywok]

I love it this way, if someone steals your shit, that is initiating a fight imo, mages are handcuffed in this situation because there is no spell damage. To fight a thief you only leave yourself open to more steals, and every thief here is gm from 0 effort (how inaccurate is that?) so they will continue to take all your shit.

If you don't want to be counted, give us spell damage in town, at least against thieves.

I used to at least respect what you had to say and your opinion Hemperor. Even though everyone on these boards consistently flames you. But I've lost most respect just by your postings on this thread. Go to a trammel shard or stop banking in Britain.

This change is a bummer. I didn't even kill players because I have 0 tactics, but now I can't even safely continue to steal from people if the initiate combat (guard wack). LAME...

[Derrick]

I'm not sure what the basis is for this claim that this is a year 2000, or trammie patch, or even a patch at all. Everything we've seen shows that this was active throughout the life of the thieves guild from February 1999 forward. We intentionally stay away from just about any OSI patch from Jan 2000 forward exactly for the reasons cited in prior posts. Stealing is aggressive, it seems clearly documented to me.

This is a post Feb 1999 T2A era shard. We have the thieves guild, the anatomy bonus for combat, the meditation skill, etc. etc. etc. There is no pick and choose here on these issues, if it's accurate, and this one clearly seems to be, we're obligated to fix it.

[Virindi1]

It's fine. I'm over it. It wouldn't be an T2A server without the retarded carebear changes that were implemented during the era leading up to trammel. It's interesting that you even replicated the feeling of disgust that I had in 1999 when this change was made originally. Talk about accuracy.

[Abyss]

Since both were T2a accurate, how bouts we keep the system that's not going to drain the fun out of an entire template. If people are dumb enough to not group their bandages and regeants while in town, not keep their valuables secured in a locked box or in their bank, and not avoid fights with dexxer thieves if they are unsure they will win by recalling to a different location...it's their own fault and they deserve to lose all their shit and die! It's sad even thinking this server is catering to banksitters in the first place. I mean...you seriously can't tell me that GMs honestly believe this type of change is going to have a positive effect on this growing server. I know it's a free server and all, but the key factor to a successful server is keeping the players in an environment they enjoy playing in. The only people that will enjoy this are the trammy banksitters that don't know how to handle thieves and the mages will be relieved because they were completely raped of their defenses against thieves with the no magery in town change.

[alatar]

They're not going to change it simply because the majority of the thieves on this shard don't particularly care for it. It's accurate to the T2A Era and the entire Thieves Guild.

[Ebywok]

They're not going to change it simply because the majority of the thieves on this shard don't particularly care for it. It's accurate to the T2A Era and the entire Thieves Guild.

Logic will not discourage our community from complaining. An entire template was nerfed with this patch. The entire past year of fun and success was guaranteed to be gone forever on this server. LAME > {

It seems to me that the only people happy are Hemperor, Britain bank sitters, and new players transferring from their dead, trammelized shards.

[alatar]

They're not going to change it simply because the majority of the thieves on this shard don't particularly care for it. It's accurate to the T2A Era and the entire Thieves Guild.

Logic will not discourage our community from complaining. An entire template was nerfed with this patch. The entire past year of fun and success was guaranteed to be gone forever on this server. LAME > {

It seems to me that the only people happy are Hemperor, Britain bank sitters, and new players transferring from their dead, trammelized shards.

How do you think the people who came here for T2A PvP felt when all of the nice PvP additions got nerfed or completely changed.. Yet I am still here..

Change is all part of the game. That goes with all MMORPGS, they will always change. That's why the fuckin box says "online gameplay subject to change without notice"

I guess you forgot to read that part..

[Ebywok]

W/E. that's why I stated that when i rejoin full time I will redouble my petty theft efforts. I don't like the changes, but I will adjust...

[DrFaustus]

They're not going to change it simply because the majority of the thieves on this shard don't particularly care for it. It's accurate to the T2A Era and the entire Thieves Guild.

Logic will not discourage our community from complaining. An entire template was nerfed with this patch. The entire past year of fun and success was guaranteed to be gone forever on this server. LAME > {

It seems to me that the only people happy are Hemperor, Britain bank sitters, and new players transferring from their dead, trammelized shards.

How do you think the people who came here for T2A PvP felt when all of the nice PvP additions got nerfed or completely changed.. Yet I am still here..

Change is all part of the game. That goes with all MMORPGS, they will always change. That's why the fuckin box says "online gameplay subject to change without notice"

I guess you forgot to read that part..

Don't you quit and come back every week?

[alatar]

Don't you quit and come back every week?

Way to show your ignorance. Were you even an active part of this community when I chose to quit this server? Obviously there was a reason I came back. I'm not the one in the patch notes forum demanding a patch-revert because my favorite thief template got nerfed..

[DrFaustus]

Don't you quit and come back every week?

Way to show your ignorance. Were you even an active part of this community when I chose to quit this server? Obviously there was a reason I came back. I'm not the one in the patch notes forum demanding a patch-revert because my favorite thief template got nerfed..

Pretty sure you've quit and come back twice between the time I started and posted in this thread...

[Hemperor]

You thieves are the ones trying to be carebears. macroing your thief to gm for 0 gold, getting mace fighting to gm and then sitting in town...once again at the cost of 0 gold.

There is no skill to the thief template. Snoop, set last target, steal macro.

Boom you have their shit, this isnt accurate, and then being able to kill them in town while you still all their vitals and can't be harmed by spell damage, its just so carebear.

Great changes Derrick!

[Silverfoot]

I'm not sure what the basis is for this claim that this is a year 2000, or trammie patch, or even a patch at all. Everything we've seen shows that this was active throughout the life of the thieves guild from February 1999 forward. We intentionally stay away from just about any OSI patch from Jan 2000 forward exactly for the reasons cited in prior posts. Stealing is aggressive, it seems clearly documented to me.

This is a post Feb 1999 T2A era shard. We have the thieves guild, the anatomy bonus for combat, the meditation skill, etc. etc. etc. There is no pick and choose here on these issues, if it's accurate, and this one clearly seems to be, we're obligated to fix it.

What other information do you guys have supporting the stealing change? You cited the HoC chat, but in the actual patch notes for the Thieve's Guild I see nothing relating to thieves being flagged as an aggressor when stealing. The patch note Kaivan cites only shows that it was changed from an aggressive act at some later time, not when it was actually implemented. The closest information I could find was this stratics page: http://web.archive.org/web/200003012325 ... flags.html. That's from Jan. 2000 and it supports stealing being an aggressive act, but it also states in there that the stealing flag is only given to thieves who totally fail, partially fail, or partially succeed. I would take that to mean on a full success the thief would be able to defend himself if his target attacked him, unless I am missing something...

Is there an earlier stratics page or something obvious that I missed that supports that this went in with the thieves guild in Feb. 1999?

[Kaivan]

That's true. A thief who completely succeeded at stealing an item would not receive the aggressor flag. As a second side effect, a thief who completely succeeded would also appear as an innocent to their victim, which is different from each of the other outcomes. In the other three circumstances, a thief would take on the perma-grey flag, and would appear as a "grey" to the person that they stole from until death, and would be freely attackable by that person.

As for other proof, there isn't much more proof that's needed. The HoC chat clearly states the actual results that stealing had at the time on the live servers (remember that despite the fact that the HoC was before the patch note date, the patch notes always lagged behind the actual release by a couple of weeks at the least. Also, the quote was said by Designer Dragon, the lead designer for UO in 1999). The 2002 patch notes also clearly state the removal of the aggressive stealing as well. Since no patch notes cite any changes to the aggressive nature of stealing between 1999 and 2002 (unless you count the fact that a thief was not kicked out of the thieves guild for murdering after UOR), we conclude that aggressive stealing was in place with the introduction of the Thieves guild.

[Slimeball Jasper]

Thieves will keep stealing, we just dont need to kill people now, we will leave that up to the town bombers.