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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:20 pm 
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Derrick wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, we'll likely be making some adjustments to the restock rate.

As far as basis for this, we know that NPC vendors operated on a available gold account, and we have the code for gold going into that account, and out of that account. The information that's missing currently is the restock code, so we're going to do our best to approximate it on the basis of reasonableness, and on player feedback.

We know that the town economy (and world) on OSI was very complex and resource based; we don't currently have the level of complexity that OSI had. Everything was resource based, from vendor restocks to spawns. We'll get there.

Here's a great article on this for the curious: http://www.mine-control.com/zack/uoecon/uoecon.html


It's pretty epic when you think about the economic system that was implemented into this "game." This is (one of the many reasons) why we are still playing this game after 13 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:13 pm 
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RawToxic wrote:
I rarely say anything in regards to patches, but please give this a gander...

However, I fear that making this change could end up becoming detrimental to the ongoing health of the shard player count.




They do not care about the ongoing growth of this shard if it goes against era, this shard was a project to recreate era accuracy...people actually playing this shard are not a priority when it comes to making these changes and your text falls on blind eyes. GG


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:36 pm 
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Xandorf wrote:
Cindrew wrote:
Heres a thought; get out of town and go farm monsters. This isnt "Vendor Online"; do something that generates pvp or risk.


Well that sounds like a statement from someone who never played on osi. Some people don't like to kill monsters you ever think about that?

That's like telling a role-player that he can't say hail, ffs.

If I wanted to kill monsters I would go play wow....

I craft and I pvp, that's about it. Pvm on a t2a shard is like shooting fish in a barrel.

I can't wait till I get this rust shook off and get in the field. ^.^

Edit: You guys can also say goodbye to cheap stuff, because the prices of peoples goods are going to skyrocket due to the lost revenue stream.


Atlantic 97-2001... try again.. gtfo out of town..

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:40 pm 
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Cindrew wrote:
Xandorf wrote:
Cindrew wrote:
Heres a thought; get out of town and go farm monsters. This isnt "Vendor Online"; do something that generates pvp or risk.


Well that sounds like a statement from someone who never played on osi. Some people don't like to kill monsters you ever think about that?

That's like telling a role-player that he can't say hail, ffs.

If I wanted to kill monsters I would go play wow....

I craft and I pvp, that's about it. Pvm on a t2a shard is like shooting fish in a barrel.

I can't wait till I get this rust shook off and get in the field. ^.^

Edit: You guys can also say goodbye to cheap stuff, because the prices of peoples goods are going to skyrocket due to the lost revenue stream.


Atlantic 97-2001... try again.. gtfo out of town..


Well then you should know better.....

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Derrick wrote:
As far as basis for this, we know that NPC vendors operated on a available gold account, and we have the code for gold going into that account, and out of that account. The information that's missing currently is the restock code, so we're going to do our best to approximate it on the basis of reasonableness, and on player feedback.


Most of the vendors seem able to handle anything but someone dumping bundles and bundles of crafted items on them. If not in a trip to one vendor, then by going to two or three across town.

The exception is the jeweler. I haven't pinned down the purse size or restock rate (if by "restock rate" you mean how often their purse is refilled), but I've been unsuccessful every time I've tried to sell to a jeweler during peak hours (8:00 to 11:00pm EST) since this patch. Lucky for me, I can sneak on for a few minutes at a time during off-peak and unload some jewels. But if a player is unable to do that, they're largely going to be locked out of ever selling gems or magic necklaces to jewelers. I certainly support limiting the purses so that players experience the "I don't have enough gold", but with the current jeweler purse, peak-hour players are *only* going to ever see that message.

Oh, one other thing: Derrick can you clarify the difference between "You have nothing I'm interested in" and "I only have XXgp left to buy from you"? I've received both messages in instances in which I've had something to sell that they should want. Since gems tend to sell (via the Sell Agent at least) one type at a time, often I'll sell all of my say diamonds and sapphires, and the vendor will say "You have nothing I'm interested in" even though I have rubies and they haven't bought any yet. I think this message is sometimes being used when it should be the "I only have XXgp left to buy".

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Derrick wrote:
Thanks for the feedback, we'll likely be making some adjustments to the restock rate.

As far as basis for this, we know that NPC vendors operated on a available gold account, and we have the code for gold going into that account, and out of that account. The information that's missing currently is the restock code, so we're going to do our best to approximate it on the basis of reasonableness, and on player feedback.

We know that the town economy (and world) on OSI was very complex and resource based; we don't currently have the level of complexity that OSI had. Everything was resource based, from vendor restocks to spawns. We'll get there.

Here's a great article on this for the curious: http://www.mine-control.com/zack/uoecon/uoecon.html


Something to consider during the "tweaking"
Here is an "interesting" mechanic about raising carto with these rules.

Per the post, dumping your own gold on a mapmaker would give him gold to buy your maps, which would in turn spawn new maps to be bought.... 1/17/2000

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... SJc3BebSwJ

as Im not home to test, I wonder if we currently have this mechanic? I have seen some notes in this thread about Vendor's gold (on person) being separate from their transaction gold. I dont know what happens when you give an NPC gold as....yeah... i dont really ever do it! :D

edit, here is another post from 11/8/99 mentioning the same mechanic.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgr ... 5C9HtoW9kJ


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Mikel123 wrote:
Oh, one other thing: Derrick can you clarify the difference between "You have nothing I'm interested in" and "I only have XXgp left to buy from you"?

The former message means he's either not interested in or can't afford anything that you have at all. The latter should be the result of him having enough money to buy at least something that you have.

If you need a better answer I'll look it back up.

Hoots wrote:
Per the post, dumping your own gold on a mapmaker would give him gold to buy your maps, which would in turn spawn new maps to be bought.... 1/17/2000

as Im not home to test, I wonder if we currently have this mechanic?

Yes, it was found that on OSI any money "given" to a vendor, or charged for training goes into his account, and he can use that money to buy items.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Derrick wrote:
Mikel123 wrote:
Oh, one other thing: Derrick can you clarify the difference between "You have nothing I'm interested in" and "I only have XXgp left to buy from you"?

The former message means he's either not interested in or can't afford anything that you have at all. The latter should be the result of him having enough money to buy at least something that you have.

If you need a better answer I'll look it back up.


No need - I think this fits with what was happening. I'll double-check in the next day or so, thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:59 am 
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Rammar wrote:
RawToxic wrote:
Has anyone had a chance to do any testing from a new players perspective like a bowyer, carpenter or such to see if one logged in and started crafting if they would have any issues going around trying to sell their wares and get established on the server?


I had a bag of ~90-100 random non-magic leather items (20 or so max of any one type). Within an hour of server-up, it took 3 vendors, in 3 towns, to sell them all off for a grand total of ~4k. Also note that none of those vendors had any bought items already in their sell lists, so no one else had sold in the last hour.

As is, the only feasible way to unload items, be they magic, or crafted, seems to be if you sell them as you craft them, or immediately after a pvm run.

Ironically this least effects selling scrolls, since mages are one of the only vendors players actively buy from (thus increasing the purse). Coupled with the longer inventory respawns (meaning they'll be bought up more often), suggests they'll easily have enough gold once someone buys regs that cycle.


It's only ironic if it came about specifically because of Telamon's scribe post.

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:05 am 
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theuodealer wrote:
It's only ironic if it came about specifically because of Telamon's scribe post.


It was specifically mentioned earlier in this thread that it would kill scribe selling, when in-fact that's the selling least effected. Sorry if you don't find that ironic, but next time don't put words in my mouth just because you can't see the connection.

In any case, why it came about is irrelevant.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:18 pm 
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If the gold the vendor has on hand is insufficient for let us say one hour. Do the funds replenish automatically back to a default amount?

On the flip side, if the gold the vendor has on hand is over the default amount, do the funds go back down to the normal amount after a certain amount of time?


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:06 pm 
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Rammar wrote:
It was specifically mentioned earlier in this thread that it would kill scribe selling, when in-fact that's the selling least effected. Sorry if you don't find that ironic, but next time don't put words in my mouth just because you can't see the connection.

In any case, why it came about is irrelevant.


Leave it to UO players to look for a fight in any corner of a forum, over any comment. I almost bit but changed my mind... Have it your way, pal :)

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:56 pm 
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Battlerattle wrote:
RawToxic wrote:
I rarely say anything in regards to patches, but please give this a gander...

However, I fear that making this change could end up becoming detrimental to the ongoing health of the shard player count.




They do not care about the ongoing growth of this shard if it goes against era, this shard was a project to recreate era accuracy...people actually playing this shard are not a priority when it comes to making these changes and your text falls on blind eyes. GG


I love how people select specific sentences of a post and only reply in regards to that specific quotation. I'm not opposing the changes in anyway shape or form. In fact, I welcome them. I was just trying to explain that the changes would hold a major impact to retention of new players if the implemented changes were not balanced to the active economy and player base count of this shard.

As far as people making posts that they believe the staff of this server do not care about changes impacting new players? I call total BS on that remark... I've seen things get recalibrated many times here in my tenure as a player on this server after new changes are implemented to mimic ERA specific mechanics. It's like an invisible walking tight rope that staff of this server must traverse while making this server as close to exact ERA as possible. Understand that if some things were implemented here exactly as they were on OSI servers, many issues would arise that make the game no longer fun to play. Trust me, they must be pulling off some kind of magic behind the scenes to make this game feel as it did in ERA with the economy and player count that we have.

Know that established players leave this server every week. If it was not for the growth of new players coming to this server and deciding to stick around, eventually there would be no one left to play on this server and hence, what would be the point of having it around? New player retention holds a lot more weight than you think it does.

Everyone knows it's the established players that no one cares about. Kidding. :twisted:

People need to try to learn more about how the underlying mechanics of the game actually function before ranting about specific changes. Take a look back and use a little reason. I can guarantee you that the staff making code changes here are doing so. Look how freaking awesome this server has become!

People need to learn to choose their battles.. Especially people like you Mr "Battle"rattle...

However, in re-reading my post, I shouldn't be posting long winded messages late at night when I'm tired. :)

Raw

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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:43 am 
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I am concerned this patch could lead to an increased item count on the shard. If you can't sell them people may store weapons, jewels, maps, scrolls in locked down chests in their homes. I know the shard has had a problem with item counts in the past.


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 Post subject: Re: Patch 149 - Sept 24 2012: Shopkeeper accounting
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:09 am 
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grumpy wrote:
I am concerned this patch could lead to an increased item count on the shard. If you can't sell them people may store weapons, jewels, maps, scrolls in locked down chests in their homes. I know the shard has had a problem with item counts in the past.


It actually might have the opposite effect. If people lose money when selling huge amount of items (i.e. hoarding magic loot, and waiting till you've filled a container to sell to vendors) they may be encouraged to sell items as they come across them. So instead of saving up a month's worth of t-map loot and then selling, they should be selling off the loot after every tmap they do.

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