Secure Containers:

[Jew of Yew]

As always im a big fan of doing something just because it was this way during T2A, however if I remember correctly secures were added before UOR so either way is T2A accurate. This is difficult because I feel that house looting is fun for alot of people, but at the same time it prevents many people from using their houses for storage. I voted to remove secure storage only because It feels more realistic. If I killed you in real life and your house key and address was in your pocket, id probably go loot your house too.

[leterrien]

I've gotta say no to the secure containers because of the risk factor.

[Deano]

As always im a big fan of doing something just because it was this way during T2A, however if I remember correctly secures were added before UOR so either way is T2A accurate. This is difficult because I feel that house looting is fun for alot of people, but at the same time it prevents many people from using their houses for storage. I voted to remove secure storage only because It feels more realistic. If I killed you in real life and your house key and address was in your pocket, id probably go loot your house too.

Yes you would, but the additional part here is that there would always be others hunting you down, the game isn't realistic enough to portray "clues". Besides a name, there is no other way to know who did it and to find them. Given the easy ability to create alts across multiple accounts, it's extremely ahrd.

I'm all for looting players and stealing out in the wild, but when you're sneaking into a house and hoping you can kill someone quicker than they can physically lock a key away is just screaming for metagaming. Your trying to beat the game, not the gameplay.

In combat your dexterity measures how fast you block and swing. Same for movement. The lower your dex, the quicker you're exhausted. An alternative at the time? Running and walking faster than the server can keep up, an effective running cheat. This is an example of beating the game, not the gameplay.

[Suppression]

Actually, secures were added with the new UOR houses, and shortly after that, customizable houses, etc.

No no and NO to secured containers. I love looting houses and whoever said its grief is a complete idiot, because if you have a good stock of regs and im low, hell yeah im going to jack you.

[Deano]

Actually, secures were added with the new UOR houses, and shortly after that, customizable houses, etc.

No no and NO to secured containers. I love looting houses and whoever said its grief is a complete idiot, because if you have a good stock of regs and im low, hell yeah im going to jack you.

How is it NOT grief then? Someone is trying to store items in their house and the ONLY way you can steal is because it's not locked down while they quickly use it and you stand there hidden. What's realisic about a stealth ability that makes you completely invisible in the middle of a hallway whiel they attend to something?

That's an interface issue, not a realism issue.

[Deano]

Here is something to further expand my opinion. Read this:

"If those players want to use that castle to serve as a base of operations for their "mean, evil, bad-guys group" whose purpose is to kill other players, that's perfectly fine with us. That in itself will become a social element of the game, as that evil group of players will be written up in newspapers and portrayed on wanted posters. Inherent to that is the idea of notoriety. All players will have a notoriety rating; performing evil acts will quickly generate a negative notoriety. Other players may then band together and say, "Yeah! Let's go find the mean, evil, bad-guys group and go kill them." "

That's from Lord British himself. The point here? Stealing a house does nothing. Besides a player name, you have NO other clues or reputation to go by. Everything in this situation is entirely player driven.

Guards will NOT hunt thieves outside the city. Other players will. I'll know am urderer when I see one, they're red. I know this person is bad. But that blue guy, he might have just stolen from a thief, he may have accepted goods from a thief. The game has no mechanic to portray this however.

There needs to be something to prevent the majority from player looting. Or else we're asking for another Renaissance.

[RoadKill]

The only reason you're able to steal like this, is not because you're beating the PLAYER'S ability to secure their house, not the character's. This is why it's called a roleplaying game. Your role should never be comrpomised by external factors.

Welcome to UO. It's always been about how well the PLAYER can triumph over another PLAYER.

Yes this is a roleplaying game, but roleplaying has gone out the window in most cases years ago. I've been an RPer before (I'd consider myself pro-RP.)

[Deano]

The only reason you're able to steal like this, is not because you're beating the PLAYER'S ability to secure their house, not the character's. This is why it's called a roleplaying game. Your role should never be comrpomised by external factors.

Welcome to UO. It's always been about how well the PLAYER can triumph over another PLAYER.

I've been a part of it for a very very long time....

First off, it's NOT ONLY about how players triumph over one another. That is one small fraction of the game's entire existance. It can be ANYTHING the players want. Some want to compete, some want to work together, some alone.

Yes this is a roleplaying game, but roleplaying has gone out the window in most cases years ago. I've been an RPer before (I'd consider myself pro-RP.)

That's irrelevant. I'm talking about game mechanics, now how well you act out your character in context.

Your in-game dexterity is NOT a measure of your out of game dexterity. So if your out of game abilities don't disadvantage you with other aspects of the game, why should it based on how well you can type "I wish to lock this down".


And finally, you still didn't answer how it's NOT griefing to kill another player and loot their house and effectively counteract their recent experiences.

Notice how players don't mind murdering, but they do mind people racing against game mechanics to steal from a house? That's because the game punishes you for murder. It's an evil deed and it's treated accordingly. There is nothing in-game to help new players OR punish house looters. It's almost a manipulation of game mechanics. Beign evil without being designated evil. Clearly goes against the design goals Starr Long and Richard Garriott conveyed.

[Derrick]

Actually, secures were added with the new UOR houses.

Secures were in game for at least 12 months prior to the release of UO:R. I can't tell you exactly when they were added, but I quit OSI UO prior to the release of UO:R and I'd never known the game without secure containers. There may have been some changes to the way secures worked on the UO:R release, or you may be thinking of strongboxes which were added just prior to UO:R, but we do not have those.

The secure containers have a weight limit of 400 and an item limit of 125. People cannot store all their valuables in secures.

There was plenty of house looting going on during the era.

[RoadKill]

Your in-game dexterity is NOT a measure of your out of game dexterity. So if your out of game abilities don't disadvantage you with other aspects of the game, why should it based on how well you can type "I wish to lock this down".

Make a macro for it. Just like anything else. Everytime you want to recall/cast any spell do you double click your avatar, then double click the backpack in the paperdoll, double click the spellbook, and then page to the spell you want to cast? I seriously doubt it.

PvP/PvM is slightly based on your character, but mostly based on your out of game abilities.

Skill gain is slightly based on your in-game setup, but heavily based on how smart you are in the real world and how well you can setup a macro or efficiently gain skills (without macroing.)

A lot of what happens ingame has to do with the people behind the avatars. No our skill/stats are not connected and I think you're kinda weird for even mentioning it. But if you (not your character) can't figure out how to make and use a macro which will help protect your character's belongings (and therefore your belongings to an extent) then you really need to learn how to play UO ( "you" being the player, not you personally.)

Learn, ask, live.

[King Of Ascalon]

doesnt matter, secure containers was before UO:R just like trashbarrel and other things, so it dont really matter secures are in, looting someones house is just plain griefing.....

[alatar]

no house looting, simple.. you all know the first time someone jacks your 100 item 2500 stones chest when you're moving into your new home that you're gonna just log off because your entire server history worth of work was just hijacked by someone with too much time on their hands..

[RoadKill]

no house looting, simple.. you all know the first time someone jacks your 100 item 2500 stones chest when you're moving into your new home that you're gonna just log off because your entire server history worth of work was just hijacked by someone with too much time on their hands..

Or you can take 60 seconds and secure your move like any sensible player? Bring a friend? etc...

If someone jacks your 2500 stone box, he isn't exactly going to run far. Secures did exist during t2a, but does anyone have a date from when it was implemented?

[Deano]

no house looting, simple.. you all know the first time someone jacks your 100 item 2500 stones chest when you're moving into your new home that you're gonna just log off because your entire server history worth of work was just hijacked by someone with too much time on their hands..

Or you can take 60 seconds and secure your move like any sensible player? Bring a friend? etc...

What if they stole it while you were securing it? Again they are beating you based on an external factor.

Make a macro for it. Just like anything else. Everytime you want to recall/cast any spell do you double click your avatar, then double click the backpack in the paperdoll, double click the spellbook, and then page to the spell you want to cast? I seriously doubt it.

Okay so you have two people using macros, whoever can select thiers fastest, wins. So what if old Joe has 100 dexterity but no matter how hard he tries he just can't press that macro fast enough. He can never defend his home? Bit unfair.

PvP/PvM is slightly based on your character, but mostly based on your out of game abilities.

Yes but there are consequences for those actions. There isn't for house looting. If poor Joe above gets murdered outside the city, that player who took his life now has to live in the wilderness outside of town. Joe also put up a bounty for his head. That character, in true Ultima fashion, has to now do some good deeds to atone for his crime.

Taking something from a house, especially a container, has no consequences. Hence why it's a popular attitude.

[RoadKill]

Yes but there are consequences for those actions. There isn't for house looting. If poor Joe above gets murdered outside the city, that player who took his life now has to live in the wilderness outside of town. Joe also put up a bounty for his head. That character, in true Ultima fashion, has to now do some good deeds to atone for his crime.

There is a reason you go grey for entering a house you aren't a friend/co/owner of. It allows house owners to take action into their own hand. There was a time when this didn't exist and that's when it was a problem.

As for house security;
Keep your door locked. Keep a row of locked down tables or some other form of barrier. Walk in, close door, detect hidden. Say "I BAN THEE" (even pre-type it if you need to!) Your house is now secure.

This isn't rocket science.

And please, STOP using this "external factor" as an answer. Most things that occur in UO are heavily influenced by the external factor. You have to take external factors into consideration.