Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

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GomerPyle
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Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by GomerPyle »

With the implementation of non-free use tournaments, I understand there has been some experimentation with the bank box opening at the beginning of matches. This is a step in the right direction, however I am proposing a change to the restocking method.

After a test, I found it took roughly 90 seconds to restock 90 pots, even while using a restock agent with individual pots coming from within a bag in my bank box (restock agent does not work with kegs). Obviously this is well above the 17 seconds allowed at the beginning of a match. Now, I know it would not be practical to leave the wall up for 1.5-2 minutes with the bank open, so I am suggesting the restocking period be changed to 2 minutes outside of the arena. It is unfair to force players to enter a match without being fully prepared, giving them an instant handicap.

I don't know the coding capabilities, but possibly a player-activated command could be implemented to allow for a player to "ready up" between matches so that if both paired contestants are ready to start, then they would not have to wait until the restock period is over.

For reference, I was personally involved in a tourney earlier tonight where one of my matches went into Sudden Death and when it was over I was left with less than 20 pots total, and immediately went into the next match with 17 seconds to restock 70-80 pots in order to be fully prepared. Needless to say I did not stand a chance against even a half-prepared opponent. I am not the only one who has had the same experience.

Derrick had the following to say in a previous thread about the restock time allowance.
Derrick wrote:One of the problems with making it too long is that everyone has to wait, we have to reannounce that it's starting in a few seconds or etc. I considered a restock time outside of the arena, but increasing the "limbo" time that a person was waiting to fight raised some other issues.
Well, I suggest we iron out the other issues and get this changed so that no one is forced to enter a match unprepared. There are currently no methods to restock properly within the allotted 17 seconds, including kegs, restock agents, or using pack animals or alt chars to hold items. Something needs to be done.

Please do not make posts stating that I or others should use a different playstyle. This is not a thread about playstyles, rather it is about the need to allow anyone entered in the tourney to play at their full capability for every match.

Luca|Blight
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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by Luca|Blight »

Get rid of non-free use tournys. The only one who wanted them is Hemperor and he hasn't joined a single one.

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Derrick
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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by Derrick »

I tried to find a way to do this within the framework of our current system, which I did not code the base of, but have highly modified to fit UOSA. I failed to find a proper way to insert more time for restock besides doing it while the wall is up. I'm afraid that to meet the time frames in the OP, it may require a rewrite of the tourney system; something that wouldn't be a bad idea, but not something that can be done at this time.

One solution that occurs to me is to prep beforehand with bags that have the needed supplies in them.
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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by Hicha »

Solution: Stop relying on so many pots to win.
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Faust
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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by Faust »

The solution is using a resource cap that removes the need for sudden death and makes it fair for everyone since they would be sitting on equal terms. This way you would not even need to restock in most cases and the resources allocated would be sufficient enough for one match. A person could hold enough resources for well over 5 matches without the need to even restock.

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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by Sandro »

This guy complains b/c he doesn't have enough time to load 90 explosions on him before each match. Is he serious?

Why don't you just carry the entire keg... If you need 90 pots each match to win then you shouldn't even join a tourney..
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GomerPyle
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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by GomerPyle »

hiicha and Sandro you forgot to read the last part: Please do not make posts stating that I or others should use a different playstyle. This is not a thread about playstyles, rather it is about the need to allow anyone entered in the tourney to play at their full capability for every match.

Btw Sandro I do carry a keg in my matches, the same as any dexer should. Guess what, you still run dry if you fight a mage that has the ability to take it to sudden death. Am I supposed to carry a keg of each type of pot? P.S. We all know you just join the tournies with your mage and then rage when you lose. Don't bring your rage into this thread as well, because it is admittedly mostly about giving dexers their fair chance since they are obviously more item-based than mages. Thanks.

Faust I'm not really sure what you mean by a resource cap. Don't we already have one? 125 items and weight limit.

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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by Sandro »

GomerPyle wrote:hiicha and Sandro you forgot to read the last part: Please do not make posts stating that I or others should use a different playstyle. This is not a thread about playstyles, rather it is about the need to allow anyone entered in the tourney to play at their full capability for every match.

Btw Sandro I do carry a keg in my matches, the same as any dexer should. Guess what, you still run dry if you fight a mage that has the ability to take it to sudden death. Am I supposed to carry a keg of each type of pot? P.S. We all know you just join the tournies with your mage and then rage when you lose. Don't bring your rage into this thread as well, because it is admittedly mostly about giving dexers their fair chance since they are obviously more item-based than mages. Thanks.

Faust I'm not really sure what you mean by a resource cap. Don't we already have one? 125 items and weight limit.
I'm failing to see where the rage was? I've beaten your extremely geared-out dexxer within the first 20 seconds of the match. My point was that I don't think it necessary to allow time to load 90 explosion pots EACH round.

If you took more time to learn how to effectively play a dexxer, and not just spam throwing explosion potions, maybe you wouldn't run out in the first match. There is tactics behind purple potions, but it's clearly not to spam them and hope you make consecutive hits and disrupt each time. Maybe that is why your rounds go to sudden death, because you exhaust all your pots so quickly.

I bring 25 purples to start, and I am playing a mage. I rarely even run out and need to restock, because I only use them when they would be most beneficial.. I see half of these dexxers running into every purple they throw and do more damage to themselves than their opponent does..

I don't see anything wrong with the tournaments other than the ability to use magic reflect & invisibility items in the magical tournament. What is the point in that?
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GomerPyle
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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by GomerPyle »

1. you beat me because I restocked one too many items and couldn't unequip my wep into my bag lol
2. i dont just constantly spam
3. ive only had one match go to sudden death since non-free use was implemented. and this thread is what happened.
4. of course you only bring 25 exp's, you're a mage
5. this isnt the field, we can't recall and restock when we get low, and most field fights don't last 10 minutes. it's a different situation, and being geared to go the distance is necessary.

what if regs were unstackable? you need regs to fight right? i think maybe you would be more open to this suggestion if that were the case, as would i. this is not about me looking for an advantage for a dexer, it is only about being able to play at full capability for every match, like i already said. being stocked with pots which a dexer NEEDS is not too much to ask.

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Faust
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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by Faust »

The proposal that was mentioned not very long ago was to remove sudden death and put in a resource cap. A resource is defined as reagents, potions, bandages, food, etc... This cap would be applied per match gathering the current held resources on your character and only allocate a maximum amount and returning them after the match is over. For example, a cap mentioned was 50 of each reagent for those particular type of items. The same would be applied to all the other resources in order to make each match fair. This way you could simply store plenty of reagents, potions, aids, food, etc.. on your character and the system would only allocate the cap until you either run out due to bad resource management or die before it happens. This way it comes down to conserving your resources as a strategy instead of spamming in mani a billion times or guzzling a potino since <insert potion effect here> doesn't exist. The cap would be adjusted in a way to make it fair for both mages and warriors.

The current item and weight limit allows a player to hoard tons of items that can make a match go on forever requiring the "who is lucky death" feature to exist.

The tournament would be similar to the one Blackfoot held that allocated a certain amount of items to a player for each match in the tournament.

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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by Sandro »

GomerPyle wrote:1. you beat me because I restocked one too many items and couldn't unequip my wep into my bag lol
2. i dont just constantly spam
3. ive only had one match go to sudden death since non-free use was implemented. and this thread is what happened.
4. of course you only bring 25 exp's, you're a mage
5. this isnt the field, we can't recall and restock when we get low, and most field fights don't last 10 minutes. it's a different situation, and being geared to go the distance is necessary.

what if regs were unstackable? you need regs to fight right? i think maybe you would be more open to this suggestion if that were the case, as would i. this is not about me looking for an advantage for a dexer, it is only about being able to play at full capability for every match, like i already said. being stocked with pots which a dexer NEEDS is not too much to ask.
Regs being unstacked is a stupid comparison. If that we're the case you couldn't even carry 20 of each reg, let's be real for a moment.

I play a dexxer when I get bored, probably the same template as yours. I make plenty of kills without purple potions, and a fair amount while using them. What im trying to say is there is a big difference in using purples in a fight, as opposed to starting off the fight by launching pots every 3 seconds.

I look at explosion pots being just another way for a dexxer to get a "well" timed disrupt off, not just an endless supply of bombs as you tend to use them.

I'm not asking you to change your play-style, I'm only stating that you probably would/could do better if you more efficiently managed when/how you throw your pots. Dumping an entire keg is like spamming heal, your just blowing through resources.. The technique you are using works against many people, I just think it's a huge waste of resources, imo.
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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by archaicsubrosa77 »

prep little baggies beforehand... :?
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GomerPyle
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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by GomerPyle »

its not just about exp pots... like i was saying in my example, when i went into sudden death i was down to like 4gh, 5gc, 5tr, 0dex, 0str and there was no way i could've restocked at the beginning of the next match. in magics/pots/poisons tournies being stocked is hardly an issue because the matches are over very quickly, but with only gm weps it is relatively easy for a good mage to take most dexers to sudden death. having bags of pots in your bank would not work, because if your first match went to sudden death, you may be fine for the next match, but you will be screwed for the 3rd. and thats if you ONLY have bags of pots in your bank box.

if it was setup as it is now, but with all items being restored at the end of a match, it would satisfy all of the points other than having a gold sink, and imo that solution is the best one out of any suggested. a gold sink should not even be a relevant topic of discussion when talking about events, so i agree with the previous proposal that we be allowed to stock up to our item/weight limits and it be restored after each match. and if you really insist on having a gold sink, perhaps there could be a gold entry fee for any event which was previously non-free use, but again, i feel it is unnecessary.

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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by Panthor the Hated »

Who cares what gomer's play style is? Why is everyone against longer restock times? Seems like always having enough time would benefit everyone.

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Pristiq
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Re: Non-Free Use Tourney Restock Time

Post by Pristiq »

archaicsubrosa77 wrote:prep little baggies beforehand... :?
I agree with this. Since we don't see the time being lengthened anytime soon, you should make a macro to organize battle-ready bags of pots and aids.
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