Guards and Attacking In Town

[swaswj]

I've been looking through old patch notes trying to confirm one way or another, but maybe one of ya'll already knows the sure answer.

Back when I played T2A, I remember a trick that allowed you to attack in town without guards being called. If you dragged their health bar, then moved off-screen to an area where there were no NPCs on screen, but still relatively near the target... you could attack the target and they would walk to you.

They would call guards, but since you were out of range, the guards wouldn't appear.

You could then attack normally as long as someone didn't walk up and call guards or you didn't double-click to 'attack' them again (prompting them to call guards again).

So I decided to try this on a vendor... and the first part worked correctly. The guards were called for but didn't arrive. However, the NPC never came toward me. They continued walking around the store as if nothing was wrong even though they were highlighted. So I went to the NPC. As soon as I stepped next to the NPC, I was guard-whacked, before I could even swing the weapon.

Nobody had called guards.

Deciding to test that a bit more, I "escorted" another NPC just outside town and attacked them. Once they were low on health, I herded them back into guard protection, then walked after them. Again, as soon as I got in range to swing, before the swing took place, and without guards being called, they appeared and killed me.

Obviously, making an "attack" on an innocent is summoning guards, but as I recall, it didn't work this way in T2A. Someone actually had to call guards on-screen, and NPCs would only call guards during the initial attack. This seems kinda like a Trammelish "we must protect the NPCs" deal, but I can't find patch notes that confirm it one way or the other.

[Mens Rea]

It should work.

I'm on your daniel mate.

[Roser]

Slightly off screen the NPC and attack, NPC will call guards.
Guards are ranged so they don't appear.
NPC does not engage in combat (questionable weather they should or not, I think they should).
Kill NPC, do not re-attack.
Loot black sandle's.

This works just fine.

You will get guard whacked if other NPC's are present, or if a player calls guards on you. In order to prevent other nearby NPC's from calling guards, simply attack them the same way you attacked the first one. NPC's will only call guards once per individual NPC.

[swaswj]

Slightly off screen the NPC and attack, NPC will call guards.
Guards are ranged so they don't appear.
NPC does not engage in combat (questionable weather they should or not, I think they should).
Kill NPC, do not re-attack.
Loot black sandle's.

This works just fine.

You will get guard whacked if other NPC's are present, or if a player calls guards on you. In order to prevent other nearby NPC's from calling guards, simply attack them the same way you attacked the first one. NPC's will only call guards once per individual NPC.

That sounds like how I remember it working (except that other NPCs would call guards at the initial attack, not afterward) but not how it's working here. I've tried a couple different areas where there's no NPCs on screen, attacked from off-screen without getting guard-whacked, and did not re-attack. As soon as I move into melee range (still with no other NPCs around) I get guard-whacked. Sometimes I'm fast enough to swing once, usually not.

Haven't attempted with magic or arrows, but melee is what I used to do in T2A.

Also, interesting note: NPCs won't leave guard zone if attacked. I've gotten a noble to come at me (extremely slowly) to the very edge, but he wouldn't take one step outside the guard zone. Stopped there and went left to right but wouldn't step out.

[Roser]

Hmm this is very odd. Also you bring up a very excellent point.

All NPC's on screen should call guards on you, Here right now they don't, it's only the NPC that you flag that end's up calling guards.

So yea, above I was talking about melee combat only, not ranged, although ranged works the same way.

I used this technique about a month ago and it worked like a charm every time. Unless there was an error made somewhere along the lines, then what you explain should not be happening. Ill give it a test next time I log on.

[swaswj]

Hmm this is very odd. Also you bring up a very excellent point.

All NPC's on screen should call guards on you, Here right now they don't, it's only the NPC that you flag that end's up calling guards.

So yea, above I was talking about melee combat only, not ranged, although ranged works the same way.

I used this technique about a month ago and it worked like a charm every time. Unless there was an error made somewhere along the lines, then what you explain should not be happening. Ill give it a test next time I log on.

Trying different areas of different towns, I was able to get it to work near the Trinsic docks on a seeker of adventure.

Every other NPC I've tried has been insta-guardwhack as soon as melee range.

A different funny thing... I attacked a couple times while hiding. Guard appeared right on top of me (speaking of which, remember how they used to always appear in pairs, flanking the criminal?), and then said Reveal! 6-7 times before actually revealing and killing me.

[Roser]

A different funny thing... I attacked a couple times while hiding. Guard appeared right on top of me (speaking of which, remember how they used to always appear in pairs, flanking the criminal?), and then said Reveal! 6-7 times before actually revealing and killing me.

Interesting, UO:R maybe? I've never tried this.... Would make stealth more useful from actually getting away from town guards lol.

Anyway, are you making sure your not attacking an Invul labeled NPC? Also keep in mind that NPC's can call guards though walls and don't require a LOS to Gwhack u (as per recent patch). Its kind of like they "hear" the crime and call guards... U also will not see any test of them calling guards as they are LOS'ed.

[swaswj]

A different funny thing... I attacked a couple times while hiding. Guard appeared right on top of me (speaking of which, remember how they used to always appear in pairs, flanking the criminal?), and then said Reveal! 6-7 times before actually revealing and killing me.

Interesting, UO:R maybe? I've never tried this.... Would make stealth more useful from actually getting away from town guards lol.

Anyway, are you making sure your not attacking an Invul labeled NPC? Also keep in mind that NPC's can call guards though walls and don't require a LOS to Gwhack u (as per recent patch). Its kind of like they "hear" the crime and call guards... U also will not see any test of them calling guards as they are LOS'ed.

I'm sure. I was using AllNames to verify that no other NPCs were on screen. Unless the rats and birds were calling on me. Things seem to work fine in Trinsic, though (except for NPCs not all calling guards like they used to). Just had issues in Skara, Jhelom, and Brit.

[Derrick]

Try doing this with another character nearby, and check his journal. I think the NPC is calling guards, but you're not seeing it because you are are dead, it might be a problem with the order of the packets that are sent.

Guards reveal just like players do, it's skill based; a comparison of your hiding skill to their detect hidden skill. What is your hiding skill?

[swaswj]

Try doing this with another character nearby, and check his journal. I think the NPC is calling guards, but you're not seeing it because you are are dead, it might be a problem with the order of the packets that are sent.

Guards reveal just like players do, it's skill based; a comparison of your hiding skill to their detect hidden skill. What is your hiding skill?

GM Hiding

I didn't find it odd that a guard could reveal, just thought it was funny that he was shouting out loud, "Reveal!" I think, in the past, two guards would just show up and attack, regardless of whether the target was hidden.

As for the rest, I'll give that a check later. I may also check whether it's possible to stealth away. Thus far I just kinda sit and see how long I can stay hidden.

[Derrick]

I didn't find it odd that a guard could reveal, just thought it was funny that he was shouting out loud, "Reveal!" I think, in the past, two guards would just show up and attack, regardless of whether the target was hidden.

Ahh ok, I reread your post above. I thought you had meant that you remembered them saying this 6 or 7 times on OSI, but revealing instantly here. It's correct that they may have to try a few times to reveal you if you have GM hiding, and yes theoretically you could stealth out of there I think.

It's possible them saying "reveal" is a mistake in my part, they did say this, but it may not have been intended to be visible to players, might have been only a debug message on OSI.

[swaswj]

I didn't find it odd that a guard could reveal, just thought it was funny that he was shouting out loud, "Reveal!" I think, in the past, two guards would just show up and attack, regardless of whether the target was hidden.

Ahh ok, I reread your post above. I thought you had meant that you remembered them saying this 6 or 7 times on OSI, but revealing instantly here. It's correct that they may have to try a few times to reveal you if you have GM hiding, and yes theoretically you could stealth out of there I think.

It's possible them saying "reveal" is a mistake in my part, they did say this, but it may not have been intended to be visible to players, might have been only a debug message on OSI.

After taking a few weeks off for work and travel, I came back to this and gave it a try. Found something interesting.

You can stealth away from a guard... but it appears that as soon as you step out of hiding, you get guard-whacked. In one instance, I was about 3 screens away from the guard (well out of sight), and I had waited until I turned blue. As soon as I stepped out of hiding, the guard teleported over and killed me. My corpse was blue, and an unfortunate Lady grabbed my bag of random npc clothing without realizing.

I called guards and they whacked her for it. Felt bad afterward, so I made sure she got everything back (except her title).

I'm going to test again and see what happens if you stealth all the way out of town.

[nightshark]

My corpse was blue, and an unfortunate Lady grabbed my bag of random npc clothing without realizing.

I called guards and they whacked her for it. Felt bad afterward, so I made sure she got everything back (except her title).

I'm going to test again and see what happens if you stealth all the way out of town.

Someone was looting you and you felt bad that they died for it? Are we playing the same game?