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 Post subject: Begging and karma loss.
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 9:05 pm 
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Hi folks,

I played a beggar pretty intensely for about a year and I don't recall it dropping karma so low as it does here. This was nearly 10 years ago and in UO:R though.

A search here only really produced this previous posting -

Derrick wrote:
Repent wrote:
But you loose Karma and Fame when you use begging... Is that really accurate? What's the max gold one could get if they were Glorious Lord?

14

I just read this essay on Stratics:
http://uo.stratics.com/content/professions/beggar.shtml

I doubt that the begging skill has changed much over the years, but I couldn't find any older info on it. If anyone else has any more era specific info please share it. This skill is already on my list as something to look at, but since it's so under utilized, it wasn't really a priority. After reading this essay I'm going bump it up a little.


viewtopic.php?f=42&t=943&view=previous

The Stratics essay does mention karma loss but not how much. On the related point - I am certain that (at least from UO:R) using begging didn't drop fame at all. I don't know if it still does on UOSA (the above quote's about two years old) as I haven't gained any to lose with my beggar.


The UO patch notes in the Wiki here produced nothing relevant.


The UO Herald Guide suggests that begging only prevents a character from achieving higher karma levels. The info doesn't seem to be dated though -

Quote:
Beware, Begging will not endear you to the general public - if you are at the second "positive" tier or above, Begging will lower your Karma. (See here for the Fame/Karma chart.) So using Begging will lower you from "Kind" to "Fair", but if you're "Fair" or lower, it won't affect you at all.


http://www.uoherald.com/guide/guide.php?guideId=59

That is vaguely familiar?^


I am almost sure that when I took my beggar on a liche killing fest to acquire 4th level fame I had to spend a while snooping/npc killing etc to return myself to a neutral karma level ("The Renowned" seemed to fit an RP beggar better than any more fancy titles). I wouldn't have done this if just using the skill would take me back down to neutral. I don't recall ever being in actual negative karma with the character and he used the begging skill a hell of a lot. But again, it was long ago.


Has anyone got any info to offer on this?

Ta.

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 Post subject: Re: Begging and karma loss.
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:57 pm 
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I can't see that begging is currently reducing fame, or that it should.

I agree from reading that begging should not drive your karma negative. Fixing.

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 Post subject: Re: Begging and karma loss.
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2010 4:40 am 
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Nice one. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Begging and karma loss.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:34 pm 
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hi, begging still reduces karma to below 0. i am constantly having to raise it again and again. at 0 npcs should not give the response "Thou dost not look trustworthy...!" so, since i am getting it, i must be going below 0.


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 Post subject: Re: Begging and karma loss.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:51 am 
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Like, I made this mistake on my beggar, of trying to poison something, and I was successful so I lost a lot of karma. So then I go and kill a few rats, right? To get my karma up. Okay, so I get it over 0, and I lose a little karma when I beg. I keep losing karma. But then I get the "Thou dost not look trustworthy!" thing, almost EVERY time now. So I must have gone below 0 again. I think. It is just REALLY frustrating. You don't get that message when you first start out on your beggar. You either get "I feel sorry for thee..." Or the NPC ignores you. So to get that message a whole lot is frustrating because it means I have to constantly be fighting rats and stuff... but I guess that's okay... just a beggar's job......


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 Post subject: Re: Begging and karma loss.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Another thing is that, even if you ONLY increase you karma as a beggar, you will be subject to karma loss that goes down past zero, in which case you will get the THOU DOST NOT LOOK TRUSTWORTHY thing. so you cant even kill rats.


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 Post subject: Re: Begging and karma loss.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:29 am 
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Claude wrote:
Another thing is that, even if you ONLY increase you karma as a beggar, you will be subject to karma loss that goes down past zero, in which case you will get the THOU DOST NOT LOOK TRUSTWORTHY thing. so you cant even kill rats.



I can confirm this. I made a beggar begged till about 57 skill, and for whatever reason (boredom) I attempted snooped the npc... after this I could no longer beg because of the "not look trustworthy". kill rats, beg beg beg then back to "not look trustworthy". I saw this thread..... made another begger and then made sure I took no karma hits in either direction.... now i'm at 72 begging, never having to kill a single rat. Im wondering if you go postive lets say +1 karma ... and you lose 2 karma for begging... I wonder if I am going negative on the first begger because it it checks this way (if karma > 0 then deduct ) instead of (if karma > ( 0 + deduct amount) then deduct) .....if that makes any sense


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 Post subject: Re: Begging and karma loss.
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 5:46 am 
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I can confirm that there still seem to be problems regarding this, at least at "neutral" level of Karma.

Had my aspiring beggar snoop because I figured that at master level a little bit of karma loss wouldn't be so bad, and it raises dexterity quite effectively.
But yeah, pretty much got canned right after, went into neutral again by laboriously killing some rats, nothing.

Thing is, he did gain some karma before I put him on the begging spree, and that didn't do anything, from what I have gathered.

The snooping did him in good, though. I don't have the patience right now to see that going past neutral in karma "resets" this state of "safe" (non karma loss) begging or not.

If this is intended (since it's been about 5 years or so) then I apologize for bumping this old thread.


Last edited by Lofwyr on Wed May 31, 2017 10:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Begging and karma loss.
PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2017 10:34 am 
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(Instead of just bumping, I'll use the edits I made to the previous post as a reply)

using the "players online" section of my.uosecondage I continued to slay rats etc to bring him back over 0.
Begging and failing due to "not enough money" resulted in no karma loss.
Begging and receiving money gave a -10 hit.

Creating a new beggar with no karma change received money without a karma hit.

Killing a rat with the test beggar (which seems to give 10 karma) and begging for money gave the -10 hit.
A second beg with money then, again, deducted none. Possibly because karma was 0.

So I guess karma gets reduced once one gets below 0.


It seems that if you have an amount of karma that is not cleanly divisible by 10, aka 0 or 10,20 etc, then it can get you to negative.

Testing is slow because it takes so long for the "online" index to refresh.
Anyway. A test beggar dipped below 0 for a moment, then got back up, had a karma amount of 24, begged three times, and went to -4, now he's untrustworthy again.
Another new beggar who started with a "white vest" dropped below zero by changing the starting karma to something undivisible by a small gold donation to an NPC.
I managed to make his karma divisible with more gold donations and once that happened he didn't drop below 0 anymore.

So, in assumed conclusion:
If you have a high skill beggar but accidentally messed things up, try getting the character above 0 with a karma value that is cleanly divisible by 10.
It seems to be possible with gold donations to npcs, which seem to translate to ~5 karma per gold but with diminishing returns?
You can find out your karma on "my.uosecondage.com" in the "players online" section.
You can also try GMing off a "spent" NPC who doesn't have any money anymore, them telling you this gives gains but no penalty.

Snooping seems to incur a -24 karma hit, and therefore can mess the whole thing up really bad, while it seems that rats and co leave you with clean 10s and co (untested but it seems that way)


To the coders in charge:
If begging should not drop below zero then look at the check, it seems bugged.
It's probably an "if karma > 0, karma-=10" or something.

I tested this on the account "begkarmatest" which is my "fourth" account.
It would be cool if it could just be deleted instead of banning me for this :wink:


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