Keyring Discussion Question

[Hicha]

We also know that anyone can "use" a runebook, but only house owners & friends can actually remove runes from them.

It's not working precisely that way right now. Friends cannot remove runes from locked down runebooks.

I had to go fishing for the resources on this and I misspoke on the issue. As per a pretty detailed newsgroups thread, a runebook that is locked down cannot have its runes removed, or default location changed by anyone. It can however have runes added to it, and this can be done by anyone. The thread can be found here. Additionally, with respect to keyrings and keys, a 2002 thread describes the exact scenario that Mens Rea is describing (after it became legal to lock down items you could pass through on your steps). This is an excerpt from the newsgroup posting:

gil <g...@qwest.net> wrote:
>Derek Lyons wrote:

>> Am I correct in assuming that if I lock a house key down on the steps,
>> friends and co-owners *only* will be able to use it? (Even other
>> characters on the account who have not formally been 'co-ownered'?)

>Yes, only friends/co's/owner can use a locked down key.

>Put the key(s) on a keyring, otherwise it won't work (at least it used
>to not work). When on a keyring you don't need to have the key on your
>person to use it, if not on a keyring you have to have it on your person
>(at least that's how it used to work, I haven't tested it for a long
>time).

It still works that way (I tested it), so that will be a backup method
because you have to click on the key, then the door (much slower).
With the key in your backpack you just click on the door.

So, as per this particular thread, keyrings were unusable by anyone with friend or better access, although this is difficult to pass as definitive information at best.

I'm guessin thats a typo in your comment by saying they are unusable by anyone with friend or better access; from the newsgroup it says the key is usable by friend or greater.

[Kaivan]

Ah, you're correct, I meant to say unusable by anyone without friend or better access.

[Mens Rea]

You're good at this Kaivan.

Did you know that during T2A you could actually mark over locked down runes? So if I had LOS from inside a house to outside the front door, I could mark the rune to the front door?

[Telamon]

.

[Mens Rea]

Mens Rea in your house is era-accurate.

Doorstep key nonsense is inaccurate.

[Kaivan]

You're good at this Kaivan.

Did you know that during T2A you could actually mark over locked down runes? So if I had LOS from inside a house to outside the front door, I could mark the rune to the front door?

This was true until a mini-patch was released detailing the following change:

The following changes will be in place after the shards come back from their daily maintenance:

• Issues with newbie flagging will be corrected as well as being retroactive, players identified as “young” who should not be will lose their “young” status
• You will not be able to mark runes that are located in houses
• You will not be able to gate from bank runes unless you are at your bank
• You will not be able to scribe scrolls from your bank unless you are at your bank
• While dead, you will not be able to escort NPCs
• Black wisps will no longer appear on shards other than Siege Perilous

This patch is part of a handful of patches that were published to the FYI section of the website but never made it to the latest updates page. The full list of FYI articles that are relevant have been compiled, but they have not been added to the patches page due to the fact that it is a locked page and we haven't gotten around to it yet.

So, for now, the list of T2A era articles that cite mechanical changes are:

• Modification to LoS: May 26, 1999
• Modification to correct some issues: August 26, 1999
• NPC gifting changes: September 7, 1999
• Updates to the September 22, 1999 publish: September 23, 1999
• Fixes for the November 23, 1999 publish: December 9, 1999

[Brules]

Mens Rea is NEA as he would have been perma banned by now for being a racist.

[Mens Rea]

We've been over this Brules, I was referencing the historical origins of the name Brules.

[Ronk]

Well, regardless of whether meas wants in your house or not, I have to agree with him/her. I played just before, during, and up until shortly after trammel was released. Then I played on Angel island. This shard is the first place I recall seeing so many keys on everyones door step. I can't say for sure that it wasn't possible but I do know that, for whatever reason, very few to no people (that I ever saw) put keys on their door steps.

I do remember an occasional small house on top of a tower.
I remember a bug where you could lock things down pretty much anywhere (though items outside your house could be clicked once by anyone to 'unlock them').
But keys? Nope. In fact, I dont' even remmeber ever seeing a key locked down on a floor. If I had to guess I would say its because keys could still be used while locked down...by anyone..and therefore it may have been possible but would have been stupid to lock a key down.

[Mens Rea]

If I had to guess I would say its because keys could still be used while locked down...by anyone..and therefore it may have been possible but would have been stupid to lock a key down.

Bingo

[Kaivan]

If I had to guess I would say its because keys could still be used while locked down...by anyone..and therefore it may have been possible but would have been stupid to lock a key down.

Bingo

Actually it's quite the opposite of that. If you refer back to the 2002 newsgroup posting regarding house keys, it makes one distinction between keys and key rings: Keys cannot be used while they are on the ground. This is an identical mechanic to the demo. When you attempt to use any key on the ground, it reports back "That key is unreachable." This is a nice symmetric piece of information regarding keys which shows their mechanics to be the same after 4 years.

[Ronk]

If I had to guess I would say its because keys could still be used while locked down...by anyone..and therefore it may have been possible but would have been stupid to lock a key down.

Bingo

Actually it's quite the opposite of that. If you refer back to the 2002 newsgroup posting regarding house keys, it makes one distinction between keys and key rings: Keys cannot be used while they are on the ground. This is an identical mechanic to the demo. When you attempt to use any key on the ground, it reports back "That key is unreachable." This is a nice symmetric piece of information regarding keys which shows their mechanics to be the same after 4 years.

That assumption nets the same result, so I could see it as being true. If you can't use a key (or keyring) must be in your bag to use it, then locking down on your steps would be pointless. You'd have to release it, lift it, unlock your door, then relock it down. Which would explain why no one bothered locking keys down on their steps...it would be far too much effort having to play the 'stacked item' game.

[Mens Rea]

The demo shows that you can copy a key without it being in your pack.

[Kaivan]

The demo shows that you can copy a key without it being in your pack.

This is actually not the case at all. The demo code shows that you cannot copy a key unless you are in possession of both the blank key and the key to be copied.

On a side note, while I appreciate the candor for inquiring about these issues, it's better to ask about the mechanic then to state declarative things about the mechanics, particularly when its impossible to have tested these things in the demo.

[Mens Rea]

Hmm I logged into the UOSA tutorial server and purchased some blank keys, I tried copying the keys and got the same message when the key I was copying was in my pack as when it was on the floor. Is the demo server not the demo?