T2A Spawn

[Li Meiyang]

I have a very distinct memory of the area East of Delucia (South Central/SE T2A) spawning Ettins, Trolls, and Wisps. I remember clearly cuz I always trained up my new characters hunting out there. Now it's just orcs, but there were not orcs there back in the day.

Not a priority fix I know, but it would make something more worthwhile out of all that unused land in T2A... and be era accurate to boot.

I think maybe Harpies and Ogres too, but I'm a little fuzzy. Ettins, Trolls, and Wisps I remember for sure!

[Kaivan]

If you can find reliable information supporting the existence of such a spawn in era, we'll try to get this type of spawn in place.

[Li Meiyang]

If you can find reliable information supporting the existence of such a spawn in era, we'll try to get this type of spawn in place.

1999? Aside from PRINCE, my memory is the best you're gonna get

[Kaivan]

Without some tangible evidence, we can't make any changes to the spawns or mechanics.

[Li Meiyang]

Without some tangible evidence, we can't make any changes to the spawns or mechanics.

Ok, if you want something more tangible than my clear-cut memory, what would you prefer?

[Li Meiyang]

OK maybe it was just Atlantic.... and Cheseapeake.

If the other shards had different spawns, ok. I don't know.

But otherwise, the spawn is wrong. I"m *sure*.

I trained all my characters there. Even when Seige Perilous opened, I was very close to getting the first house cuz I knew where to hunt.

[Menkaure]

OK maybe it was just Atlantic.... and Cheseapeake.

If the other shards had different spawns, ok. I don't know.

But otherwise, the spawn is wrong. I"m *sure*.

I trained all my characters there. Even when Seige Perilous opened, I was very close to getting the first house cuz I knew where to hunt.

You need evidence homie. Trust me, theres a lot of things that arent era accurate but they can only go off evidence. Go read up on how to find evidence, its one of the sticky threads at the top of this page. You gotta go through patch notes, and its boring.

[Li Meiyang]

What good are patch notes gonna do, when that's how the spawn was from the launch of T2A onward? I mean how did they decide the spawns on this shard in the first place, fact or guesswork? Probably some combination of the two, coming up with the best fascimile they could.

I can understand not going off one person's word, but corraborated mass memory seems like as good as a lot of evidence is gonna get.

Anyway, it's not a big deal. I'm just pointing out that there were tons of wisps and trolls and ettins in that area cuz I trained up every single character I had from the launch of T2A onward hunting there -so I'm 1000 frkn percent sure

[Li Meiyang]

Here's a map. I remember cuz coming from the Delucicia the spawn always started at that straight north/south line. I'd run around in there pegging off trolls and ettins, and working wisps for resist.

So I don't know what the official OSI server T2A areas look like now cuz I haven't had an account with them for over decade. But if anyone does maybe then can go take and look to see if it's the same? I mean OSI could have changed the spawn around too in that time, but it would just be telling if it was still the same. Or if anyone else's memory serves and can corroborate this...?

[Kaivan]

I can understand not going off one person's word, but corraborated mass memory seems like as good as a lot of evidence is gonna get.

Player memory, whether others claim to remember the same thing or not, is not sufficient evidence to make a change to the game. A good example of this is the speed of the katana. You can search the forums for discussions on the topic, and you'll find that collectively, players remembered that the speed of the katana was slower than the kryss - a topic that was far more ubiquitous than the spawns in a specific area. We even made the change, based on this recollection, and an e-mail response from Xena Dragon regarding an e-mail she received from a player who was confident that the katana speed reported on their page was incorrect. However, later evidence showed that, without a doubt, that the katana was faster than the kryss, and that the collective memory for a very common item was incorrect.

We need something tangible to make the change, and we're willing to do it if some evidence comes to light. Without it, we can't justify any changes.

[Li Meiyang]

I understand that argument. But I know the spawns are incorrect. And since they were guessed at the beginning, I don't see what's wrong with going with player memory. I don't think the patch notes had information on the *original* spawns, did they? Just the changes perhaps. That means the spawns as they stand now were also guessed at, yes? So between those two, I think player corraborated player memory is the best evidence to go on.

Just my 2 cents. I've always thought these guys have done a great job on this shard and I appreciate the discipline having strict guidelines in place to ensure era accuracy. But to me this sounds like a case where the standards being used might be having the opposite effect.

[Kaivan]

There is more than strictly the patch notes to go on. For example, we have set the damage delay for most spells to be 1 second after they are actually targeted. This is something that wasn't actually changed, but has always worked this way (and still does for all spells except lightning which was changed when AoS came out), but we have tangible evidence showing that it worked that way. If you need resources to look up information on spawns in era, archived stratics pages, websites such as the taming archive, and newsgroup posts can reveal information about the way the game worked at the time, which is much more reliable than 13 year old player memory.

[Li Meiyang]

There is more than strictly the patch notes to go on. For example, we have set the damage delay for most spells to be 1 second after they are actually targeted. This is something that wasn't actually changed, but has always worked this way (and still does for all spells except lightning which was changed when AoS came out), but we have tangible evidence showing that it worked that way. If you need resources to look up information on spawns in era, archived stratics pages, websites such as the taming archive, and newsgroup posts can reveal information about the way the game worked at the time, which is much more reliable than 13 year old player memory.

Not necessarily. You're comparing weapon speeds to spawns. Corraborated player memory may be a more suitable standard for the latter than it is for the former.

Is there a link to the pages mentioned above? I might do some research like you said to see if such information is still there when my time permits and see if I can find something to submit here.

I guess I'm just curious as to how the T2A spawns were originally determined for UOSA. Are there links to those sources? Since I know they're wrong, I'm imaging there had to be some guess work involved. I mean, that's fine, right. Doing the best with you have with what you've got. If there's something more specific though I'd like to see the links if they are readily available. (Don't drive yourself nuts poring over data on my account pls )

The only other explanation I can think of would be the T2A spawns being different on different shards? Have you ever heard of anything like that? I thought they were all the same (at least the shards I played on)

[crappled]

There is more than strictly the patch notes to go on. For example, we have set the damage delay for most spells to be 1 second after they are actually targeted. This is something that wasn't actually changed, but has always worked this way (and still does for all spells except lightning which was changed when AoS came out), but we have tangible evidence showing that it worked that way. If you need resources to look up information on spawns in era, archived stratics pages, websites such as the taming archive, and newsgroup posts can reveal information about the way the game worked at the time, which is much more reliable than 13 year old player memory.

Not necessarily. You're comparing weapon speeds to spawns. Corraborated player memory may be a more suitable standard for the latter than it is for the former.

Is there a link to the pages mentioned above? I might do some research like you said to see if such information is still there when my time permits and see if I can find something to submit here.

I guess I'm just curious as to how the T2A spawns were originally determined for UOSA. Are there links to those sources? Since I know they're wrong, I'm imaging there had to be some guess work involved. I mean, that's fine, right. Doing the best with you have with what you've got. If there's something more specific though I'd like to see the links if they are readily available. (Don't drive yourself nuts poring over data on my account pls )

The only other explanation I can think of would be the T2A spawns being different on different shards? Have you ever heard of anything like that? I thought they were all the same (at least the shards I played on)

No offense, but I feel like if you can't do the research to find these links on the internet, your looking into them isn't going to come up with much evidence either. But if you do, and you do find some evidence of these changes, then all the more power to you.

Also would like to point out that the other problem with player memory is that you could have 50 players all say something was this way or that, "as they remember it", but just be trying to change something to benefit them, or just something that they want that way. This to me seems the most logical reason for needing some kind of hard evidence. Not only will people say things are the way they weren't, but the human mind tends to remember things and they want to remember them, not as they always were.

[Li Meiyang]

No offense taken. I know T2A wasn't teaming with Orcs all over the place like it is now. So if the orginal spawns for UOSA were taken from accurate sources, may we please see some links? No offense, but you know... tangible evidence.

Or lacking that, a more general explanation might suffice