Revisiting harrassment policy, possible change to it?

[nubnub]

The OP has presented a laborious track for the GMs to manage when the OP admits specific words can be added to a client-managed filter but the OP doesn't want to do the work ("...but you would be surprised at what is said") so the GMs should do the work on behalf of the OP. If you're offended by words, own it and keep your filter updated every time you’re surprised and/or expect to be surprised every time you interact with people because you cannot control what they will say/do. I haven’t been ‘harassed’ by an NPC, maybe the OP should stick to interacting with them.

Toughen up wizard...

[Millerisfuntoplay]

Ultima online is the wrong game to play if your feelings get hurt easily.I'd suggest playing a game like hayday or Sim city if you wanna be surrounded by sheer joy and happiness in your spare time. And I'm sure the staff loves being told how to run the server that they created or are VOLUNTEERING to help with so that we can all nerd out and play as the wizards we all want to really be.

[Soulbreak]

The OP has presented a laborious track for the GMs to manage when the OP admits specific words can be added to a client-managed filter but the OP doesn't want to do the work ("...but you would be surprised at what is said") so the GMs should do the work on behalf of the OP. If you're offended by words, own it and keep your filter updated every time you’re surprised and/or expect to be surprised every time you interact with people because you cannot control what they will say/do. I haven’t been ‘harassed’ by an NPC, maybe the OP should stick to interacting with them.

Toughen up wizard...

Ultima online is the wrong game to play if your feelings get hurt easily.I'd suggest playing a game like hayday or Sim city if you wanna be surrounded by sheer joy and happiness in your spare time. And I'm sure the staff loves being told how to run the server that they created or are VOLUNTEERING to help with so that we can all nerd out and play as the wizards we all want to really be.

I do understand the toughen up thing, and I'll respond a little because for some reason your response is to me, the OP, and not the subject at hand.

My feelings aren't hurt. I'm highlighting a discrepancy in the rules we have across three platforms of communications. That's it.

This isn't a cry baby thread. I ask you to view it the same as pointing out an era accuracy issue (the reason I chose this forum to post under).

Read the evidence, and if you have evidence to refute it please post it. But as I wrote earlier, if you love and enjoy something you don't leave it you work to make it better.

If you don't like that, that is fine too. I personally don't like how the paralyze spell works on this server. I deal with it. Have an open mind and try not to single out a poster, but single out an idea, and work towards making this a better server overall. Regardless if this policy is changed.

[Kaivan]

I will only state one small thing right now: There is a premise that the rules between the forums, IRC, and in-game are intended to be uniform, and that isn't the case. That isn't to say that the rules may not become more uniform in the future, but the perceived discrepancies in the rules are certainly intentional right now.

[nubnub]

This isn't a cry baby thread. I ask you to view it the same as pointing out an era accuracy issue (the reason I chose this forum to post under).

Cease using Razor, donate $9.99/month going forward and I'll believe your era-accuracy concern on 'harassment'.

[Nickodemuse]

I have one concern pertaining to this thread and that is the irc chat #secondage channel. When I meet new players to the shard, say its their first day and I am giving them advice initially in-game then direct them to the irc channel they can join in-game by typing [irc for any further questions after I go about my way. They join and see this:

<Anti_Est> and break sooner [18:12] <Rammar_> nah, same rate [18:12] <Anti_Est> wait... nm [18:12] <Lelouche> or jsut take a small stack of ignots and suck someone off with gm tinkering [18:12] <Rammar_> they weigh a LOT more tho [18:12] <Rammar_> ^ [18:12] <Lelouche> for a bunch of exceptional shovels / whatever doesn't proc exceptional [18:12] <Rammar_> both my miners/ljs have tinker [18:12] <Lelouche> im not feelling a handy/bj kinda day so i can't help

Banarcho> [23:11] <CmaN> motherfucker the closest you are going to get to a native american witch is an order of popeyes chicken delivered in slap form to your fatass face [18:13] <Rammar_> mmm popeyes [18:13] <Joe|Studyin|> lol [18:13] == Anti_Est has changed nick to Azheman [18:14] <Joe|Studyin|> oh CmaN... [18:14] <Joe|Studyin|>

Welcome newb to the #secondage channel

Im not calling out anyone or downtalking anyone, nor am I offended, but welcome to #secondage IRC chat qweb. type /nick urnamehere to change your nick!

I think if there were a 2nd channel, #uosecondagehelp, would fix this. Leave #secondage as is and let the in-game command [irc join the help channel.

[Capitalist]

I’m a “grow a thicker skin” guy, so I see your point Cap. However, when you let the community govern itself, it is at your own peril. The strongest personalities tend to drive the direction. That’s well and good if the strongest personalities are voices of reason. If those voices are toxic, then you run a high risk of creating a toxic shard. Nobody should want that as that shard will die eventually.

I like this shard too much to promote a free reign policy. There should be some level of intervention. However the intervention should be a “light touch” with clearly defined parameters. The case by case basis stuff just leaves to much room for problems to arise and personal bias to influence the sentence. Actions should be scaled with the third action resulting in a small ban. This gives time to adjust behavior. After the third strike things can get serious with long term bans, etc.

The key is having clearly defined lines of what is acceptable and what is not.
1.Using the “n” word could be a hard line definition. If you use it, know the hammer can come down if someone reports you.
2.Specific references or acts emoting rape (which seems to be a common complaint) in game could very well be a hard rule.
3.Actively defrauding players over XXX gold using the forums should be a hard rule.
4.We could easily build a list of 10-15 things that should be bannable offenses (on the third strike).

The point here is the rules are clear as day. The sentences are clear as day. There can be no confusion. Five people can look at the situation and come to the same conclusion. If you can’t build a hard rule around it, then it probably shouldn’t be employed. The hard rules let everyone know where the line is drawn. If you cross it, you can pay a price. This also makes life easy on the GM’s as they don’t have to interpret anything, or judge intent, etc.

It won’t eliminate all bad behavior as every child likes to constantly test the line and we have more than a few children on here. People will see how close they can get without crossing the line, etc. The main thing is that you limit the crossing of the line which makes the interactions tolerable.

Just got around to reading this.

Your signature is pretty much the proper response for your rebuttal. I don't expect a roleplaying merchant to really buy into mental warfare in a game and on a shard where most people play for "the game" of it, being PvP. That being said, for instance, I could care less about the n word or someones inability to ignore "Specific references or acts emoting rape".

Moreover, there have been several sociological, criminology, and psychological studies that promote the agreement of wrong for certain behaviors and actions. What it boils down to is that the only thing anyone agrees on with true certainty in any of those studies is that murder and stealing are wrong. Those principles are legal here, so the idea that the lesser so agreed upon grievances people can experience verbally and physically in-game are surely to be contingent.

I personally believe that there is almost no line that can be crossed on UO. There are ways around every single type of harassment other than out of game attacks by players, such as the hacking of someones computer, DDoSing their internets to death, or stalking their real lives. The forum user "inkognito" once eloquently wrote a response addressing this same issue in a Trash Talk post. I'd hope if he reads this that he would restate or find it.

This is a game. If you cannot handle playing a game and are too emotionally invested, that is a character flaw that a person has to address themselves. The fault and punishment should not fall on the person exposing a players immaturity or insecurities, nor on staff to intervene because of it.

Now, the final issue that a few of you seem to be concerned about. Will lack of intervention affect population? Absolutely. There are a lot of trammel-like custom shards and shards run by anal individuals who make biased decisions based on their own personal discretion and previously mentioned character flaws. Plenty have fled there for internet protection from a character saying bad things. The only reason I stuck around UOSA for so long, as have many others I've spoken to that have, is that those types of behaviors are not applicable here (to an extent). The original staff when I played here absolutely did not intervene with psychological warfare at any level, nor did they concern themselves with what curse words and vulgarities players threw around at each other. I didn't even like the UOSA playstyle, nor the players. But, the simple explanation that I could play any role I wanted on this shard is how I found out I loved this place.

[nubnub]

<Anti_Est> and break sooner [18:12] <Rammar_> nah, same rate [18:12] <Anti_Est> wait... nm [18:12] <Lelouche> or jsut take a small stack of ignots and suck someone off with gm tinkering [18:12] <Rammar_> they weigh a LOT more tho [18:12] <Rammar_> ^ [18:12] <Lelouche> for a bunch of exceptional shovels / whatever doesn't proc exceptional [18:12] <Rammar_> both my miners/ljs have tinker [18:12] <Lelouche> im not feelling a handy/bj kinda day so i can't help

Pillars of the community, Anti Est, Rammar and Lelouche for helping the newbs and exhibiting the utility of IRC.

As for Azheman (masquerading as Banarcho), he's lonely and cries for attention.

[Ali]

If you can't handle the fact that we now live in a society that frowns upon bigotry then you need to TOUGHEN UP.

[nubnub]

If you can't handle the fact that we now live in a society that frowns upon bigotry then you need to TOUGHEN UP.

big·ot·ry - intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself. intolerance towards a group of people in general based on their group characteristics such as race, religion, national origin, gender, disability, sexual orientation, and socioeconomic status

Our society hardly 'frowns upon bigotry', one could argue society is fueled off of it. Wisen up wizard...

[Malaikat]

I'm intolerant of ignorant humans. Thank god society is looking out for them tho because it would be a shame to discourage their lifestyle.

I'm glad we're making them comfortable. We need more inclusion so that ignorant people feel free to speak and become even more plentiful on the Earth.

[Anarcho]

The ingame client "ignore" feature is a bit overkill, it would seem it blocks all overhead messages and I can see this being a handicap.

Off the top of my head, I wonder if a custom ingame command that would only ignore a player's speech would calm some of the concerns here. This is just an initial thought, I haven't talked to other staff about it yet.

[Soulbreak]

The ingame client "ignore" feature is a bit overkill, it would seem it blocks all overhead messages and I can see this being a handicap.

Off the top of my head, I wonder if a custom ingame command that would only ignore a player's speech would calm some of the concerns here. This is just an initial thought, I haven't talked to other staff about it yet.

I think we are on the same wave length.
If a user can ignore a players chat text, and not the words of power for spells, then there really is no issue.