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 Post subject: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:39 pm 
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Hello,

As the title says, i am trying to figure out how to disarm and rearm a tinker trapped chest. I know it is (or should be) possible.

Here is a link to Derrick saying it is possible.
http://forums.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?p=97250#p97250

Here is a link to a stratics essay from 1999 or earlier that says it is possible.
https://web.archive.org/web/19991116063808/http://uo.stratics.com/trapessay.htm

You have to trap the chest unlocked. It is armed at that time. If you lock the chest and then unlock it, it is still armed. I have also tried using the lock it and then unlock with a key on a key ring method and it still went off.

I am stumped. I hope someone has an idea of what is going on.


Last edited by dvs on Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:25 pm 
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Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but as far as I know there are only 2 ways. Open it or use remove trap skill.

Easiest way would be to use telekinesis on it from afar to avoid having it blow up on you or poison you.

http://wiki.uosecondage.com/Remove_Trap

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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:33 pm 
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The essay from Stratics clearly states it should be possible to arm and disarm the trap.


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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:41 pm 
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I guess I don't understand what you are trying to do. You can ARM it with a tinker, and also DISARM it with remove trap skill. There is no off and on switch that you can decide when to arm and and disarm it. It is either trapped, or it is not trapped.

Also the link to the essay didn't work.

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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:45 pm 
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Thank you, i updated the link, it is old Frames website and it loaded it in the main frame, but didn't update the main link. I got a direct link on the main post now. Read the essay, it is informative.


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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:25 pm 
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dvs wrote:
Hello,

As the title says, i am trying to figure out how to disarm and rearm a tinker trapped chest. I know it is (or should be) possible.

Here is a link to Derrick saying it is possible.
http://forums.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?p=97250#p97250

Here is a link to a stratics essay from 1999 or earlier that says it is possible.
https://web.archive.org/web/19991116063808/http://uo.stratics.com/trapessay.htm

You have to trap the chest unlocked. It is armed at that time. If you lock the chest and then unlock it, it is still armed. I have also tried using the lock it and then unlock with a key on a key ring method and it still went off.

I am stumped. I hope someone has an idea of what is going on.


FWIW, neither of Derrick's posts, in that thread you linked, confirm the substance of the Stratics essay:

Derrick wrote:
There is a specific patch note from within era that states you'll not receive a murder count for trapping a box if it is done on the floor of your house. This was the only exception that i am aware of in era. There is discussion in other threads about the renowned tinker murderers on the bounty boards in era.


Derrick wrote:
Using the key on the box disables the trap, as in era.


I haven't parsed the links that Batlin provided, but nothing he chose to quote confirms the Stratics essay, either.

In this thread, though, Soma supplies a lot of information that commutes with the substance of the Stratics essay: so, what has changed at UOSA since Jan/'09; dvs, did you follow the Stratics essay instructions, exactly?

This statement made me wonder:
dvs wrote:
If you lock the chest and then unlock it, it is still armed.


The Stratics essay directs you to do the following:

1. Lock the chest with a naked key: the key must not be on a key-ring; the chest is now both locked, and tapped.
2. Unlock the chest with a valid key that is now on a key-ring: this time around, a key-ring must be used; the chest should be unlocked, but still trapped.

Off the top of my head, if our mechanics are "busted", I would recommend the following to anyone who can do so,

1. Lock & Arm the chest, then
2. Have a Lockpicker pick the lock: the chest will now be unlocked, but with the trap still armed.

This all continues to beg the question of what is live here, and what should be.

SS

P.S. If you wish to both unlock and disarm a trapped chest, I believe you must unlock it with a naked key, not a key-ring.

SS


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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:26 pm 
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I did 3 different tests.

Obviously you must have the box unlocked to trap it. It is active at this time.

I tried using "naked" key to lock it. It won't allow you to open it (obvious) and it won't trigger the trap. (as intended)

I then used a naked key to unlock it. Opening it resulted in death.

I also did a Naked key to lock and a key ring to unlock. This also resulted in death.



The theory was a key on a key ring would not change the armed state of the trap. A naked key would change the state of the trap. Obviously either key ( ring or not) would lock or unlock the chest.



As a note - Derrick's last post in that thread would seem to confirm that a key should arm/disarm traps.

Quote:
Derrick wrote:
Using the key on the box disables the trap, as in era.



Here is some more background on some changes (patch) Derrick made.

http://forums.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=711
http://forums.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=721

From Patch 31

Quote:
Derrick
Tinker trapped boxes will now be actively trapped without having to lockpick first.


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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:40 pm 
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SighelmofWyrmgard wrote:

This statement made me wonder:
dvs wrote:
If you lock the chest and then unlock it, it is still armed.


The Stratics essay directs you to do the following:

1. Lock the chest with a naked key: the key must not be on a key-ring; the chest is now both locked, and tapped.
2. Unlock the chest with a valid key that is now on a key-ring: this time around, a key-ring must be used; the chest should be unlocked, but still trapped.

Off the top of my head, if our mechanics are "busted", I would recommend the following to anyone who can do so,

1. Lock & Arm the chest, then
2. Have a Lockpicker pick the lock: the chest will now be unlocked, but with the trap still armed.

This all continues to beg the question of what is live here, and what should be.

SS

P.S. If you wish to both unlock and disarm a trapped chest, I believe you must unlock it with a naked key, not a key-ring.

SS



Quote from Stratics essay

Quote:
Once I use the key, the characteristics of the trapped chest change.

The key will unlock/disable the trap or lock/re-enable the trap.
If the chest is locked and the trap is enabled, a person clicking on it will not die, they get the, "This appears to be locked" message.
If the chest is unlocked and the trap is disabled, a person clicking on it will not die, the chest will simply open.

So you see, using the key makes the trapped chest not blow up on opening anymore.




I just tested out a trapped box. I used the key to lock it and GM detect showed it trapped. I unlocked it with key and detect showed it trapped. It would seem that the key is not disarming the trap as it should.


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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:08 pm 
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Well, dvs, it seems as if you have found an issue that requires a era-accuracy/bug report or, at the very least, an explanation.

I'm curious what it could be that has seemingly been changed since Jan/'09.

SS


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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:07 pm 
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I am uploading screencaps from the Demo 98 server i finally got running - holy cow it took forever. Thank you Kaivan for the help he gave (on where to get some of the files).

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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:15 pm 
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I took 1 more screen from the Demo. The journal at bottom shows the locking/unlocking of the chest using a key in the ring. As you can see, it does not arm/disarm the trap when using the key on a ring.

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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:27 pm 
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Nice, i wonder how hard it would be to have this implemented?

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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:57 pm 
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Doing more screwing around searching old newsgroup archives for evidence to backup the Stratics essay and the behavior i discovered in the UO98 demo server.

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.computer.ultima.online/1vK-kOa0Taw/n_zY_zdEligJ
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.computer.ultima.online/1vK-kOa0Taw/vm_L4W6Rfw4J

Next thread
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.computer.ultima.online/4uRyhFuEI-g/-ky7dfVKBFoJ

Next thread - 2 posts in a row pertain.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.computer.ultima.online/8Rq7TMNEghw/LtxZq0GqMOsJ

Here is a reply showing the same functions into 4-12-00 at least.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.computer.ultima.online/kSzF9Xet0BM/YjsNoMhia60J


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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:53 am 
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Nice work dvs. It's motivating to see these discussions picking up again and being lead/pursued by our players.

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 Post subject: Re: Disarm and rearm tinker trapped chests
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:27 pm 
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I sure hope this fix is getting a good, serious look at as it is so wrong the implementation we currently have.


Last bumped by dvs on Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:27 pm.


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