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 Post subject: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 2:02 pm 
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Before AOS, i never used arch cure a single time. If you were DP'd, and a GM mage, the chance of failing a cure seemed negligible. Here, however, getting hit with dp is absolutely disastrous. If you do not have pots, you could potentially be stuck trying to cure yourself 4-5 times and maybe even still fail then.

Have the default RUNUO values been left for this? What is the formula currently used? I dont remember ever having such an issue curing, not even this bad for lethal.


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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 3:16 pm 
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it feels era accurate to me. if you could just cure it no problem then dp would be almost pointess.


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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:51 pm 
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prolly because u wernt gm mage during this era i cured dp 1/3 and yes arch cure did cure everytime.


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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:35 pm 
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UOHOC Log - September 1999 wrote:
Glamdring - *Gorbak* When will Poisoning Be improved again?? I mean, I have a Grandmaster Assassan/Alchemist, and when I deadly poison someone, with only 30 magery they can cure on himself themself? Will there be a way for a Fighter/Assassan to make 5th level Poison?
toad - Well, allowing players to make a poison that pretty much instantly kills another player is probably something that isn't going to happen.
toad - In the future we may consider doing new and different types of poisons that have different effects.
Firedog - Yeah. We might.


UOR Publish - April 28th 2000 wrote:
Cure Potions
Cure potions will now cure poison based on the relative strength of the cure potion and the poison afflicting the character. A lesser cure will have virtually no chance of curing a deadly poisoned character, while a greater cure will cure greater poison much more often than not. All other cure and poison levels will scale accordingly.


This clearly tells you that curing poison did not scale accordingly to the relative strength of the poison.

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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:25 am 
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Yeah this needs to be fixed.It wasnt like this back in the day.Im walkin along with my bard and a scorpion poisons me,it almost certanly means death unless i Archcure,a spell i never ever used until Second Age.

I could cure DP with 50 magery back then.


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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:08 am 
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mungrin wrote:
Yeah this needs to be fixed.It wasnt like this back in the day.Im walkin along with my bard and a scorpion poisons me,it almost certanly means death unless i Archcure,a spell i never ever used until Second Age.

I could cure DP with 50 magery back then.


What is your magery then? I heal scorpion poison 99% with regular cure spell first cast.

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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 5:46 am 
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You guys are a piece of work, it is not as easy as casting a second cirlcle spell to cure deadly poison, which costs over 200k to GM. It takes multiple GC potions to cure it sometimes or you have to cast arch cure or many cure casts. Doesn't that make sense? Isn't UOSA all about making sense? Isn't that why UOSA is hardcore is because it makes sense? Before Trammel is the real UO culture...eventhough I like UO:R except trammel... but I am jockin this server because: One- It aims for accuracy and Two- The people who run the server have the best interests in mind.

VOTE FOR UOSA ON THE MAIN PAGE PLEASE. WE NEED TO BE THE NUMBER ONE FREE SERVER ON THE INTERNET BECAUSE I THINK EVERYONE WOULD AGREE THAT THIS IS THE BEST SERVER WITH THE BEST PEOPLE RUNNNG IT. THE PEOPLE RUNNING THIS SERVER SEEM TO BE REAL PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY CARE. I JUST VOTED FOR THE FIRST TIME YESTERDAY AND IT TOOK ONE MINUTE AND IF ONLY 20% OF PEOPLE THAT READ THIS WOULD VOTE, WE WOULD BE FIRST AND WOULD HAVE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE PLAYING. IT TAKES ONE MINUTE OF YOUR TIME AND IT WOULD ENHANCE YOUR GAMEPLAY...MAYBE WE COULD RECREATE T2A OF 99'...ANYONE INTERESTED IN THAT? I WANT TO CREATE A LAST HOORAAAAAH!!! ONE TIME GUYS, IT TAKES ONE MINUTE ON A DAILY BASIS...CMON!!! DEXERS, MAGES, RPERS, HUNTERS, THIEFS, NMC, ETC... WE WANT EVERYONE!

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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:35 am 
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mungrin wrote:
Yeah this needs to be fixed.It wasnt like this back in the day.Im walkin along with my bard and a scorpion poisons me,it almost certanly means death unless i Archcure,a spell i never ever used until Second Age.

I could cure DP with 50 magery back then.


Wow... i think that is two over statements in one post.

My 80's magery bard is able to survive poison from scorpions and even from blade spirt mistakes just fine casting the era accurate cure spell on UOSA.

It just seems that peoples memories of what they could do with just one skill amazes me.

Deadly poison is suppose to be deadly and troublesome. Having magery didn't mean that you were immune to this too.

During 1999 if you were poisoned with DP you had to cast at least 2 or 3 times to cure it if you were lucky and there is 0 reason to change it here.

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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:31 am 
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Faust wrote:
UOHOC Log - September 1999 wrote:
Glamdring - *Gorbak* When will Poisoning Be improved again?? I mean, I have a Grandmaster Assassan/Alchemist, and when I deadly poison someone, with only 30 magery they can cure on himself themself? Will there be a way for a Fighter/Assassan to make 5th level Poison?
toad - Well, allowing players to make a poison that pretty much instantly kills another player is probably something that isn't going to happen.
toad - In the future we may consider doing new and different types of poisons that have different effects.
Firedog - Yeah. We might.


UOR Publish - April 28th 2000 wrote:
Cure Potions
Cure potions will now cure poison based on the relative strength of the cure potion and the poison afflicting the character. A lesser cure will have virtually no chance of curing a deadly poisoned character, while a greater cure will cure greater poison much more often than not. All other cure and poison levels will scale accordingly.


This clearly tells you that curing poison did not scale accordingly to the relative strength of the poison.


Actually, the second quote from you is the only thing that makes a statement about the relationship between a cure potion and a poison. No talk of spells there.

The first quote states what we already know. That a person with 30 magery has a chance to cure themselves against a deadly poison. Do we not have that here now?

What is not stated here is if that chance increases with magery and certainly there are no claims that the spell doesn't have a relationship with the level of poison.

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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 10:42 am 
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Quote:
and when I deadly poison someone, with only 30 magery they can cure on himself themself?


There is no mention of a "chance" anywhere in that sentence or even the UOHOC log for that matter. I would have to look at the formula again... but I am pretty positive that you cannot cure yourself of deadly poison sitting at 30 magery. The fact remains that poison was not scaled with potions, which seems to reason that the same would hold true with the spell too. This does not necessarily mean that this is most certainly the case, but it just seems to reason that it would be no different with the spell based on a logical perspective.

This does state one fact for curing poison.

The basis for potions here are inaccurate and should be fixed with an open possibility that the spell itself may in fact be wrong too.

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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:01 pm 
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Faust wrote:
Quote:
and when I deadly poison someone, with only 30 magery they can cure on himself themself?


There is no mention of a "chance" anywhere in that sentence or even the UOHOC log for that matter. I would have to look at the formula again... but I am pretty positive that you cannot cure yourself of deadly poison sitting at 30 magery. The fact remains that poison was not scaled with potions, which seems to reason that the same would hold true with the spell too. This does not necessarily mean that this is most certainly the case, but it just seems to reason that it would be no different with the spell based on a logical perspective.

This does state one fact for curing poison.

The basis for potions here are inaccurate and should be fixed with an open possibility that the spell itself may in fact be wrong too.


Thanks for pointing out the lack of the word 'chance'. I think you'll also notice the lack of the words 'certain' or 'always' or anything that would lead a reasonable reader to believing that casting cure on oneself at 30 magery always cured dp poison.

Using your litteral intrepretation of it would seem that chance didn't have anything to do with curing at all much less any spells and we all know that is not the case.

Let's look at the formula and work from there.

Concerning the cure spell working like potions I can see your logic. However I think they are mostly disjointed much like what would appear to be similar systems in spell and healing interruptions. For some reason these interruptions do not work the same and so I believe that potions and casted cures woudln't work the same either.

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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:45 pm 
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You were able to cure Dp with a low magery cure spell.
Also, a GC potion should always cure any poison 100% of the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:59 pm 
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Here are a few excerpts from the poisoning essay posted during late T2A on the stratics page. The guide was archived on 4/14/2000, but the last modification date for the guide was on 3/1/2000:

Poisoning essay wrote:
Curing Poisons

Finally, one must also know how to cure poison. Generally, the Cure spell is sufficient to cure Greater Poison and below, although I myself am almost a Grandmaster Mage, so that tends to help a bit. ;) The most powerful potion is difficult to Cure even with this high of a Magery skill; in my personal experience, I've had to cast Cure three to four times before eliminating a Deadly Poison in someone's system. This spell seems to be somewhere between Deadly and Greater Poison in terms of effectiveness.

Cure potions seem to be the better alternative, since there is no chance of disruption, such as there is when casting spells. Also, a Greater Cure will cure even Deadly Poison with only one quaff. A regular orange potion that was found as loot on an Earth Elemental was able to cure the 5th level Poison inflicted by a Poison Elemental.

This guide shows that even GM mages had difficulty curing deadly poison. It also accounts for the lack of the soon-to-be patch that made it nearly impossible for lesser cure potions to cure stronger poisons.

Finally, this guide also takes into account the information from November 23, 1999 patch that made healing and anatomy difficulty based for curing poison:
Poisoning Essay wrote:
A Healer with a Healing and Anatomy skill of both greater than 60 can cure all levels of poisons with a simple bandage. Ofcourse the higher level poisons require a high level of Healing and Anatomy to be successful.

While I'm not saying anything for certain about this, there is a very strong suggestion that any reasonable chance of succeeding at curing anything beyond greater poison was considered very difficult to do without higher magery (although not necessarily impossible which would account for the HoC chat).

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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:00 pm 
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Eulogy wrote:
You were able to cure Dp with a low magery cure spell.


I agree with you, but it took multiple casts to do it because there was a chance scale for success based upon the strength of poison.

Simply being a GM Mage didn't mean that you were able to cure DP with one or two casts.

EDITED: It seems that Kav's posts agrees with me.

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 Post subject: Re: Curing Poison? Era Accurate?
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:14 pm 
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It looks like all that needs to be fixed now is cure potions after the confirmation with the additional information that Kaivan posted.

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