Gating monsters

[alcon]

Well I had an enticer on OSI and I remember 100000000000000000000000000000% being able to gate monsters, so now what?

[eniave]

Fwerp's orininal post had the patch note.

"From the patch notes: It will no longer be possible to gate monsters. Only escorts, hirelings, pets, and summoned creatures. "

From the 9/16/98 mega-patch notes.

there were quite a few players that would go into lower levels of dungons and gate monsters through. Seemed to be a good way to pk without getting counts and lots of loot besides. Happened to me a few times early on. There were so many complaints ( or so I seem to remember) that that was changed.

[alcon]

Ok but a pet is a creature who is tamed and under the control of a player. When you use enticement you are making a creature under your control. What is the difference? Either way it is a creature under player control. On top of that, if it's such a big deal, just come and kill them.

[Batlin]

is the difference? Either way it is a creature under player control.

In technicals terms of UO there is a big difference.

A pet has the "pet" script attached to it.
A summoned creature has the "destcre" script attached to it.
An enticed creature has the "enticepathfind" script attached to it.

IMPORTANT NOTE: hirelings use the "pet" script too

In the demo, whose code is dated June 1998, there is no global flag "is creature under control of player". There are only the different scripts attached to them. Now, the patch note we are referring to here is from September 1998. In 3 months they could have added such a flag but I find that very unlikely.

In the scripts OSI uses a function hasScript to detect certain behaviours.
Taken from the entice script as example of how hasScript functions:

Code: Select all

  if(hasScript(usedon, "vendor"))
  {
    barkTo(usedon, user, "They look too dedicated to their job to be lured away.");
    return(0x00);
  }
  if(isPlayer(usedon))
  {
    barkTo(usedon, user, "You might have better luck with sweet words.");
    return(0x00);
  }

So if you entice an object that has a vendor script attached to it meaning you are enticing a player vendor (not a shopkeeper) you would see : "They look too dedicated to their job to be lured away.". The isPlayer function returns true if you are enticing a player and you'll see the meaningfull words "You might have better luck with sweet words.".

The way, I think, OSI would have implemented that fix, based on how the June 1998 scripts look, is:

Code: Select all

if( hasScript(obj_going_through_gate, "escort")
    hasScript(obj_going_through_gate, "pet")
|| hasScript(obj_going_through_gate, "destcre")
  )
{
   return (1);
}
else
{
  return (0);
}

For me, the question is, did they add an extra check for creatures that are enticed (enticepathfind)? Based on that patch note, I'd say no.

[archaicsubrosa77]

From personal experience entice works better gating tames then monsters....once the entice wears off the monsters are too aggro to be enticed. On the other hand you can herd while hidden. Though herding may not work for pets it's just dandy on tameable monsters that are wild. I have yet to try to gate them though but I am guessing that's what does it.
How come nobody is saying anything about blocking recall spots with a horde of lesser tamed creatures?

[esteban]

In the demo, whose code is dated June 1998, there is no global flag "is creature under control of player". There are only the different scripts attached to them. Now, the patch note we are referring to here is from September 1998. In 3 months they could have added such a flag but I find that very unlikely.

Can you help me with locating this script, or any other scripts for that matter, so I can learn some of the game mechanics?

I'm very interested in seeing the OSI implementation of various things in game.

[Batlin]

Can you help me with locating this script, or any other scripts for that matter, so I can learn some of the game mechanics?

I'm very interested in seeing the OSI implementation of various things in game.

Sure man, I posted the decompiler here:
http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8260

You will still need the install demo on your PC to get the DAT file and extract the files.
The demo comes with the "T2A Era Client" Derrick provides on the main site:
http://www.uosecondage.com/downloads.aspx
(It's a seperate installer you get after extracting the client install files, the demo installer requires you to have the original client installed).

I do not know how compatible the demo is with Vista. I do not like Vista so I ignore it all together. You might need to reinstall UO to make it work, it just depends on how much effort you want to put in it.

Alternatively: download Microsoft Virtual PC 2007 http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=en, install a virtual Windows 9x/2000/XP and install the T2A Era Client and the demo in your virtual machine (and do not run uopatch.exe).

[nightshark]

NPC's should never walk through a gate by themselves period.

Only pets/hires in "follow mode" should go through a gate if I'm not mistaken.

Pets would not have to be in follow mode.. I clearly remember attacking tamer's dragons to get them to walk through a gate, and dispelling the gate. This lasted into UO:R, even. No, I don't have evidence.

[esteban]

The way, I think, OSI would have implemented that fix, based on how the June 1998 scripts look, is:

Code: Select all

if( hasScript(obj_going_through_gate, "escort")
    hasScript(obj_going_through_gate, "pet")
|| hasScript(obj_going_through_gate, "destcre")
  )
{
   return (1);
}
else
{
  return (0);
}

Based on the fact that Enticement(Discordance) has one purpose (acting as a pied piper), is it too far fetched to hypothesize that there was also a OR for a "enticepathfind"? For that matter, there may have been (if "enticepathfind" is indeed different from a herded monster/animal) another OR for a herded animal/monster like this:

Code: Select all

if( hasScript(obj_going_through_gate, "escort")
    || hasScript(obj_going_through_gate, "pet")
    || hasScript(obj_going_through_gate, "destcre")
    || hasScript(obj_going_through_gate, "enticepathfind")
    || hasScript(obj_going_through_gate, ${herded})
  )
{
   return (1);
}
else
{
  return (0);
}

For me, the question is, did they add an extra check for creatures that are enticed (enticepathfind)? Based on that patch note, I'd say no.

I haven't even begun to dig into the demo like you have, so my hypothesis is most likely to be inferior to what you have found, but I think it is indeed possible for the extra OR for the two specific skills due to the nature of the purpose of those skills.

Sincerely,

Esteban

[tekai]

This was abused again by ACE tonight.

The wyrm was lost on nightmare 3 island from about 8pm till 11pm when I brought a horde of dragons to kill it. And then ofcourse was griefed becuase i tried to tame the respawn.

There were about 15 monsters on the small island, they had cleared T2a of the ice fiends, red spiders, white wyrm and several titans.

These mobs == WERE NOT SPAWNING == All night during primetime. No one could farm, and PKs couldnt kill the farmers. The game is being disrupted.

Reguardless of the debate weather or not you could do this in T2A (you couldnt). the mobs would have respawned. There has never been a time where there were empty dungeons due to server lines and other aspects of the game that caused respawn.

Im now on the fourth night being unable to tame or farm becuase of monster gating.

FIX THIS PLEASE.

[malice-tg]

"Quote:
It will no longer be possible to gate monsters. Only escorts, hirelings, pets, and summoned creatures."

please fix this inaccuracy.

as much as i enjoy causing chaos in the long term this will break down the basics of the game. without high level mobs spawning people stop farming, then pks stop pking because no farmers, and smiths cant sell their stuff to anyone because nobody is farming to buy it.


Not to mention besides the patch note i remember no time in which i could not "find" a mob in the dungeon because someone enticed it somewhere. I spent alot of time in the tera keep on osi. the mobs never had a "home location" that they walked to. so alot of the time you would have to find the balron which was somewhere in the dungeon... i would not have looked so much if i knew it could be in someones castle chilling.



i think tamed or previously tamed pets into a gate makes sense, hirelings, maybe even tmap spawn. but please. common sense people ...

do you remember going to a dungeon and the mobs being gone? lol

the only people that want this are the people doing it obviously...

[archaicsubrosa77]

This is how it was. So now you have to look for wyrms...a quest persay.
If you can bring a tame anywhere why cant they bring an untame anywhere? Yours respawn then the wild's should respawn too. If white wyrms didnt respawn when tamed then how come everyone has them?
No one is stopping townkilling...or other forms of griefing.
There has to be a respawn mechanism that allows tamed creatures to respawn just apply it to all forms of gating over time. So what if soon there will be white wyrms everywhere...you just had 7 yourself.

[malice-tg]

Escorts definately accidently walked into gates in era when being led. It was often tricky to keep them from accidently doing so.

What is the server definition of an escort? I was rather interested because I mentioned about the gating of tamed pets, and you appear to have referred to them as escorts.

If an NPC, under the control of a PC, is classified in the "escort" definition (such as enticed/herded NPCs), I can see how the current behavior is indeed the correct behavior.

With the above assumption, here is what I was thinking:

Case 1. The possibility of gating a newly-tamed agressive pet
Any aggressive tamable monsters, that currectly possess aggro, can be gated out.
This seem to imply that the current agression of an "escort" under player control does not factor into its gating possibility

Case 2. The possibility of gating a newly-tamed, non-aggressive (non-aggro) pets that are grey.
This seem to imply that the current criminal flag of an "escort" does not factor into its gating possibility (this is the state of an NPC when enticed/herded

Case 3. Non-PC-controlled NPC will not walk through a gate
The patch notes researched by fwerp says the following:

"From the patch notes: It will no longer be possible to gate monsters. Only escorts, hirelings, pets, and summoned creatures. "

I am more under the impression that, as Kefka mentioned, the game mechanics prior to this patch was flawed, which allowed any NPC monsters to jump the gate as long as it moved onto the tile of the gate.
Due to the fact that the monsters were not supposed to jump into the gates unless it was in the "escort" category (be it tamed, herded, or enticed), this patch fixed the issue of "non-escort NPCs" jumping through gates.

I'm also assuming this is why Derrick has the enticement/gating implemented the current way. I personally believe this is the logical implementation. I would love to be proved wrong with more research if the mechanic is not era-accurate.

this isnt debate club or philosophy class. this is a common sense issue.

it needs to be fixed so mobs cant be enticed through gates.

[tekai]

archaicsubrosa77 mabey you don't understand.. When you tame a monster, it "dies" in the system and becomes your pet. Thats why they respawn.

When you gate a monster on this server away, it never dies, thus never respawns at its home spot.

And I found the wyrm, and Killed it! I lost three good dragons in the cause, i played thier little quest.

you know what i got for my efforts? about 4 people on my tamer when the wyrm respawned in ice.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Well it was an ellaborate trap. Monsters cant just disappear they have to die, be tamed or something. You dont want a needlework design when you play everything repetitive ,slow, the same. You know what to expect and where to expect it.
I know you chose tamer because it gave you a sense of power...sometimes the weakest skill can offset the balance, but so does the most powerful.
What if you just had the wyrm follow you to wherever, because it would. Same thing. You didn't even have to have enticement for that.
I mean its easy to go around killing everything with dragons...too easy. It's time to get away from cookie cutter temps.