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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:39 am 
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I find this all highly interesting and a good find. However, please take into consideration of the older "targeting" system in place back then. Targeting in the old days was very slow to respond precisely compared to the system today. For example, you can physically target before the actual target icon pops up if you click one sec before it pops up and it will still register your target. The targeting system was kind of on a lag and could be manipulated in this manner. If you actually wait for the target to pop up and click you will have to wait at least one second before it initializes.

This can easily be tested on the demo by using any target. For example, try casting a spell and target slightly before the actual target icon pops up and you will see that if you time it precisely you can actually target the spell when it finishes the casting process before the icon actually pops up. If you wait for that icon you'll have to wait that delay inside of the targeting system before it actually officially calls the actual used target function.

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:54 am 
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Faust wrote:
This can easily be tested on the demo by using any target. For example, try casting a spell and target slightly before the actual target icon pops up and you will see that if you time it precisely you can actually target the spell when it finishes the casting process before the icon actually pops up. If you wait for that icon you'll have to wait that delay inside of the targeting system before it actually officially calls the actual used target function.

Another good way to test is using a recall rune. Cast recall, then try to click a rune like you are trying to read the name. Chances are you'll go ahead and recall to it without ever seeing a targeting cursor.

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:18 am 
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let's make it so you can't last target anyone with pots and can't click there status bar. ill pay to see a pot throwing fight if it gets put in... I would even start using it because it would feel like casting a spell or something.

More players skill, less razor please.

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 11:37 am 
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lol you want pots where you cant target? GOOD IDEA BRO

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:35 pm 
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XaN wrote:
let's make it so you can't last target anyone with pots and can't click there status bar. ill pay to see a pot throwing fight if it gets put in... I would even start using it because it would feel like casting a spell or something.

More players skill, less razor please.


You can use last target when casting spells...

EDIT: May also add, you can QUEUE last target so that the spell fires immediately after it is casted :)

<3 Razor.

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Last edited by zzyzx on Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:37 pm 
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XaN wrote:
let's make it so you can't last target anyone with pots and can't click there status bar. ill pay to see a pot throwing fight if it gets put in... I would even start using it because it would feel like casting a spell or something.

More players skill, less razor please.


This would be wrong on many levels.

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:23 am 
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Pro wrote:
lol you want pots where you cant target? GOOD IDEA BRO


He wants to make it old school where you actually need to target the avatar. Won't happen (and it's not just Razor's fault, blame the UO client). Long ago you had to target avatars and not lifebars, that's when it took real skill to use any target based action.

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:01 am 
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RoadKill wrote:
Pro wrote:
lol you want pots where you cant target? GOOD IDEA BRO


He wants to make it old school where you actually need to target the avatar. Won't happen (and it's not just Razor's fault, blame the UO client). Long ago you had to target avatars and not lifebars, that's when it took real skill to use any target based action.


Yeah, but that changed on 8.26.99.

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:41 pm 
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tbh don't fix what isn't broken explo pots here are fine

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:17 am 
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Pro wrote:
tbh don't fix what isn't broken explo pots here are fine


Wrong. It's already known how they should function, check a page or two earlier, it's just a matter of time before they are changed.

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:29 am 
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Hemperor wrote:
Pro wrote:
tbh don't fix what isn't broken explo pots here are fine


Wrong. It's already known how they should function, check a page or two earlier, it's just a matter of time before they are changed.


I'm sorry but that demo work you did on this subject is not era correct. After 8.26.99 one could easily target using the life bars.

As far as the other suggested behavior, that there was a 1 second dmg delay, there appears to be no other sources to suggest this and, more importantly, no patch note to suggest that things were changed.

Remember, the demo is most likely a copy of the test center and may not be reflective of an actual playing shard.

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:33 am 
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Kraarug wrote:
Hemperor wrote:
Pro wrote:
tbh don't fix what isn't broken explo pots here are fine


Wrong. It's already known how they should function, check a page or two earlier, it's just a matter of time before they are changed.


I'm sorry but that demo work you did on this subject is not era correct. After 8.26.99 one could easily target using the life bars.

As far as the other suggested behavior, that there was a 1 second dmg delay, there appears to be no other sources to suggest this and, more importantly, no patch note to suggest that things were changed.

Remember, the demo is most likely a copy of the test center and may not be reflective of an actual playing shard.


You're way off. Not being able to target a health bar was just something I noticed, Batlin noted all health bar changes (including poisons displaying) a long time ago to have happened at that date.

No one remembers pot whores back in the era or pots having any effect in battles, this is why. They are essentially (and will be) useless unless used against a non moving target (hidden?).

Do you think they decided:
- Lets change the pot timer to the system message
- Change when you are able to target the pot so they cant heat seek any more
- Add a one second damage delay, the same damage delay that is apparent all on spells other than explosion and harm...also archery

To a test shard (which you wont find any documentation of this, yes test shards were documented) during the demo development timeframe only to remove it and revert it?

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:22 am 
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Hemperor wrote:
Kraarug wrote:
Hemperor wrote:

Wrong. It's already known how they should function, check a page or two earlier, it's just a matter of time before they are changed.


I'm sorry but that demo work you did on this subject is not era correct. After 8.26.99 one could easily target using the life bars.

As far as the other suggested behavior, that there was a 1 second dmg delay, there appears to be no other sources to suggest this and, more importantly, no patch note to suggest that things were changed.

Remember, the demo is most likely a copy of the test center and may not be reflective of an actual playing shard.


You're way off. Not being able to target a health bar was just something I noticed, Batlin noted all health bar changes (including poisons displaying) a long time ago to have happened at that date.

No one remembers pot whores back in the era or pots having any effect in battles, this is why. They are essentially (and will be) useless unless used against a non moving target (hidden?).

Do you think they decided:
- Lets change the pot timer to the system message
- Change when you are able to target the pot so they cant heat seek any more
- Add a one second damage delay, the same damage delay that is apparent all on spells other than explosion and harm...also archery

To a test shard (which you wont find any documentation of this, yes test shards were documented) during the demo development timeframe only to remove it and revert it?


Exp pots aren't a spell. It's direct damage and would be closer to that of a melee hit or 0 effect delays like other potions than any example you provided above.

If you can find a subsequent patch note changing exp pots to what we know of them today then I may lend you more credence.

We know that attack_last was certainly spamable during the era, but players didn't take advantage of it. It would seem that perhaps players didn't develop the tactics to fully utilize exp pots back then either.

It's pretty evident that the Demo is no exact mirror copy of a production shard. I think my theory that it was a test shard, by it's very nature and purpose, is pretty strong.

Besides, I know of 0 production shards that had a helpful WISP walk you through the game... do you?

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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:43 am 
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Besides, I know of 0 production shards that had a helpful WISP walk you through the game... do you?

That really is totally irrelevant. It's a simple script attached to a wisp. Remove that script and you have a wisp like any other wisp would function on OSI. And that's exactly what happens when you say "dismiss" to the wisp. It will go away and the demo quest gets dettached you are in an OSI OSI world controlled by an OSI OSI server.

I don't think you actually took a look at all the data file and scripts, even though demo only plays in Ocllo it contains other quests, dungeon scripts and really a lot more. Things a simple demo should really not contain, but that's an error made by other companies in the past too.

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I think my theory that it was a test shard, by it's very nature and purpose, is pretty strong.

I am not preventing you from looking at all the data files and have you support your theory. If it is a test shard you should find the evidence...

And even if it were a test shard, why would explotions behave different? You, the developer, would want to test things based on your production shards so you can see the effect of any changes you make.


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 Post subject: Re: Explosion Pots
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:36 am 
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It seems to me the problems with exp pots, are the missing damage delay of 1.0 secs, and the animation following the targeted mobile, which is a display issue only.

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