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 Post subject: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 5:48 pm 
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Spirit speak is consistently referred to as thee skill to raise intelligence, but this is totally untrue, I have confirmed with Derrick that the following link is the % of skill to stat bonus that we use here at UOSA:

http://web.archive.org/web/200003080614 ... skills.htm

As you can see, spirit speak has a whopping 0% stat bonus. The following skills will raise intelligence far quicker than spirit speak, although take a little time to gather the necessary resources to work:

Cooking 30% - Simply a case of getting 1000 raw fish stakes, setting up a restock macro in razor, and cooking away. Easy to macro

Camping 15% - Just walk around the woods using your dagger to collect kindling, or buy it from provisioners. Then simply spam last object. Camping is also among the joint best strength gainer at 20%, aswell as among the best dex gainer, at 15%. The best "all round" stat gain skill by some distance.

Tracking 12.5% - The easiest to set up, cheapest to use. Simply set up a macro to track anything, every 10 seconds or so. Do not do this in your own house, or a house your friended too, as the skill, and therefore stats, will stop gaining at 10.00 real skill points.

The following skill will require capital to raise intelligence.

Poisoning 16% - Get some poison from a NPC alchemist, keep poisoning an item of food, have a 2nd account with a healer on hand to cure in case of accidental self poisoning. This, cooking and tracking are the most macro friendly skills.

Magery 15% - Self explanatory, just cast. Will require funds.

The only advantage to using spirit speak over these skills is its free, and its macroable. If your at the skill cap great, if not, I would suggest camping. Finally if you intend on having anything over 60 intelligence on a character, then start with 60.

FYI: The following link shows the top skill to stat % ratio skills for all attributes. http://web.archive.org/web/200003040722 ... m/attr.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:58 am 
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Spirit Speak WAS the skill to use, but is no longer.

When I first started here my SS macro gave me 100 Int in no time at all, but my newest characters the last couple weeks SS has done diddly for Int. Derrick nuked it, he had to of, because it doesn't work the same as it used to. But thanks for the info.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:08 am 
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I've never had a problem using herding + spirit speak at the same time to raise INT while working STR and DEX.

Pro tip: Starting with 60 INT will save you a lot of macro time as STR is by far the easiest stat to macro.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:29 am 
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I recently got my INT to 100 a few days ago. I started off by training random points so I could get 700 skill points used and using herding+spirit speak while at (0.00 each) but my INT barely moved. I switched to farming kindling's until I was full, then just spammed campfires all over (with Camping at 0.00). My INT gained much quicker that way.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:21 am 
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Obfuscq wrote:
I recently got my INT to 100 a few days ago. I started off by training random points so I could get 700 skill points used and using herding+spirit speak while at (0.00 each) but my INT barely moved. I switched to farming kindling's until I was full, then just spammed campfires all over (with Camping at 0.00). My INT gained much quicker that way.


This is what I usually do for the record. Just walk into the woods with your newbie dagger, get to weight limit with kindling then spam last object, stats fly up.

Dagon, afaik the only thing that has been changed recently with spirit speak is the delay, it was 6 seconds I think, its now 10, so takes basically twice as long. That may explain your poorer results recently. I dont believe the skill to stat bonus % have been altered recently, I have always found camping/cooking far better to raise INT, people just use spirit speak because you can macro it at the same time as herding, not because its the best INT gainer.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:54 pm 
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The only reason you want to raise intelligence is to cast. To cast for gains you want meditation. Once you have 62 meditation from the magic hat trick you should have decent intelligence. Start casting on yourself and get more gains...why does everyone try to make this so hard?

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 1:01 pm 
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Yeah I always just did magery for int gains. And if I wasn't really using magery but wanted some higher int I would just start out with whatever int I wanted since it's the hardest stat to raise.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:45 pm 
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Caswallon wrote:
Obfuscq wrote:
That may explain your poorer results recently.


Nah.. I'm telling you, when I started here I could use spirit speak for fast Int gain.. and it worked. My last couple new chars that I've macroed SS would not give *1* point of Int when macroed for hours. In fact one of my chars still needs to gain Int because SS doesn't work and I dont feel like wasting time getting kindling, heh.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:51 pm 
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Dagon wrote:
Caswallon wrote:
Obfuscq wrote:
That may explain your poorer results recently.


Nah.. I'm telling you, when I started here I could use spirit speak for fast Int gain.. and it worked. My last couple new chars that I've macroed SS would not give *1* point of Int when macroed for hours. In fact one of my chars still needs to gain Int because SS doesn't work and I dont feel like wasting time getting kindling, heh.


Because. The. Delay. Was. Half. What. It. Is. Now. Therefore. It. Was. Twice. As. Effective.

You can buy kindling from provisioners, or it takes 5 minutes to get to weight limit. If you dont want to use a proven, effective method, fine, keep using spirit speak and receive no gains. Its there in black & white.

So unless you have something constructive to add, or have a more efficient, faster way to gain INT, in which case please enlighten us, keep the pointless sarcasm to your self or take it to trash talk.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:40 am 
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What are you going on about retard? Pointless sarcasm? I've not said anything sarcastic, I've explained my experience and discussed what has happened. How is that sarcastic you dimwit?

The.skill.delay.timer.has.nothing.to.do.with.the.effectiveness.of.a.skill. Whether you macro a skill 500 times or 1000 times in the same time period your results would only differ based because of how many times the skill was used, not because the timer itself was shorter or longer. When I started here macroing spirit speak for, let's say, 3 hours, would give 100 Int.. NOW macroing for 2 DAYS you don't gain anything. That has nothing to do with the skill delay. 2 days makes up for your skill delay timer change and then some.

For the mentally challenged, as you apparently are, 2 days @ 10 second delay is still much much more usage than 3 hours at 6 seconds. Realistically the timer change would add maybe another hour or so, so if the skill still worked LIKE IT USED TO you'd have 100 Int in 4 hours instead of 3.

Here's some sarcasm for you... I think you need to get back into the woods with your newbie dagger and get some more intelligence because you are lacking "Spirit speak is consistently referred to as thee skill to raise intelligence", "the" has one e. "thee" refers to a person.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:06 am 
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After looking at that link, I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with stat gain. Instead, it looks like it's informing you of how shown skill is evaluated. For instance, your shown Animal Taming skill comes from 80% real skill, 14% strength, 2% dexterity, and 4% intelligence.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:05 am 
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Its the % of a skill that is made up from stat bonus'. The bigger the %, the more chance of the relative stats chance to gain through skill usage. As previously stated, I discussed this with Derrick before writing it, its correct.

Dagon, have you actually tested any of these skills for gains? No I thought not. So once again, either add something constructive, other than "ZOMG RETARD SPIRIT SPEAKZ NERFED, SOMETHING HAS CHANGED EVEN THOUGH ITS BEEN STATED NOTHING HAS BEEN", and stop attempting to derail a guide thread intended to help people who are finding it difficult to raise intelligence, due to you personal dislike of the OP, and not due to a valid, technical inaccuracy, or stfu.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:29 am 
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Caswallon wrote:
Dagon, have you actually tested any of these skills for gains? No I thought not. So once again, either add something constructive, other than "ZOMG RETARD SPIRIT SPEAKZ NERFED, SOMETHING HAS CHANGED EVEN THOUGH ITS BEEN STATED NOTHING HAS BEEN" or stfu.


I have not tested any of them because I'm not talking about any skill other than spirit speak, so testing other skills has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. You say nothing has been changed but you are obviously dead wrong, since the skill DOES NOT give stats like it did before.

Just because Derrick has not published any changes doesn't mean nothing has changed. Just because Derrick may say that he has not changed anything doesn't mean something was unintentionally changed. How many times does Derrick patch something that ends up causing other problems unrelated to the thing he patched. You are too obtuse to admit that you are wrong here, and too dumb to realize that you are.

By your own words you clearly never even used spirit speak to gain Int so you have no idea of how it DID work and what the gains were, so you're just talking out of your ass.

There is obviously a reason that spirit speak was THE skill to use for INT when everyone could max up to 100 in no time. That was my only argument to begin with even, since you felt so superior to need to say everyone is wrong and spirit speak isn't worth using I pointed out and said why it was, in the past, a good skill to use. Get over yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:14 pm 
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I used spirit speak on my first 2 characters until I actually bothered to look into the skill/stat % ratios, and realised its inefficient. It was a good way to gain INT, it no longer is.

/Thread

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 Post subject: Re: Gaining INT aka the spirit speak fallacy.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:53 pm 
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Pristiq wrote:
After looking at that link, I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with stat gain. Instead, it looks like it's informing you of how shown skill is evaluated. For instance, your shown Animal Taming skill comes from 80% real skill, 14% strength, 2% dexterity, and 4% intelligence.

This guy is right. The top table shows you how skill is shown not the show real.


The bottom two tables are what you guys are talking about and they show that spirit speak does give you int


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