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 Post subject: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:29 am 
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Foreword
This will be my second time GM'ing the poisoning skill in the last 2 weeks, this information is up to date as of 20May2009. The first time around I utilized DP fairly early, and I also purchased every single keg of poison. This time around I am training alchemy alongside poisoning, and I will give you the information you need to GM this skill as efficiently as possible within a reasonable amount of time. I am training this skill from 0, and I will detail the cost from 0-gm, 30-gm, and 50-gm for your convienence. The reason I am doing this is that my second poisoner is a Red-Tinkerer, and I will not be able to train her to 30. Furthermore, all skill numbers are represented in "Shown" skill. Your "Show-real" skill is virtually usless to pay attention to.

Where to get the resources
Have a character enter into the NPC mages guild and purchase your regs directly from the NPC. Buying regs without being a member, or purchasing them from a player is extremely expensive, considering how easy it is to gather large quantities. Say "<Name> Join" to an NPC mage guildmaster and drop the required gold on them to join and enjoy the benefit of discount rates (this was 500gp at the time of writting).

When you purchase regs from an npc vendor, they will restock in 30 minutes. The restock will be double the quantity of the initial purchase. You can keep doing this until they are restocking 999 at a time, that is the goal here. (You can do this with non-reg vendors to gather things such as hides/boards, but they restock every hour instead of 30 minutes). Find an NPC vendor away from the busy towns (do not use Moonglow), and set your clock for 30 minute intervals. I say not to use the main towns because...
a.) It is insanely annoying for those trying to buy regs for daily use

b.) If someone beats you to the vendor after he restocks, you just wasted an hour of your time.


You have the resources, now what.
Once you have gathered some resources (I started when I had collected 40,000 nightshade), grab 20 bottles and a single bladed weapon (or a single piece of food, it does NOT matter) and find a cozy spot where you will not be disturbed. Do not macro anywhere but the center tile of a small house, always keep a 2 tile distance between you and the wall or else you are susceptible to being killed. There is a chance you may die via an earthquake attack, but only if you poison yourself to death, the listed macro will cover that scenario.

Setting up
To effectively macro this in the quickest amount of time, you are going to need about 20 bottles, a pouch of as many mortars as you can fit (gm mortars are better), a locked down box (Or bank) full of nightshade, a single bladed weapon (or food item) and another pouch of cure potions(Also as many as you can carry). Always use cure potions equal to the level of poison you are working with. (Lesser poison = Lesser Cure, Poison = Cure, and so on)

Why so many mortars you ask?? Simple, each d.click (by type) randomly selects one, and you will select a new one every 500ms give or take. So by having several mortars you decrease the chance that the macro will select a mortar already in use (although this does not waste resources, it does waste time). Furthermore, it allows restocking the mortars (which is needed rarely, I have used the same bag of gm mortars for 20+ hours) to be a drop in the bag, instead of selecting multiple absolute targets to achieve the same effect. Alchemy is one of the few (if not only) skills where you can continue working with a seperate tool and avoid any delay in skill use.

Important!
Check this macro every few hours and make sure you have enough Cure Potions! You COULD add a section to craft the cures in with your alchemy macro if you want, but I rarely used a cure potion myself with a second-account healer making sure I never witnessed statloss.

Make sure your bag of cures (and mortars) is/are open and visible. Before you start your macro, re-log completely out and back into UO. Why? Because if you have seen another mortar or cure potion besides the ones you hope to use, razor may get confused and try to use those with the Target-by-Type method. This will cause your macro to hang up, or possibly cause you to poison yourself to death or waste time trying to use a mortar you cannot reach. If you are macroing in public, be advised that people can sit cure potions and mortars just outside your reach to screw up your macro. This can also happen if you are macroing inside your house, and there is a mortar/cure outside your home, so beware.

The Macro
You want to run 2 different macros, looping them together by hotkeys. The first should look like this...

Alchemy macro
Code:
[b]If Hits >= X[/b]
[b]If GreenPotions <= 15 (setup a counter for your poison-potions[/b]
[b]If Nightshade <= 150 (again, make a counter for NS)[/b]
Restock Agent:1 (Restock 200 nightshade)
Absolute Target (where you are restocking from, if bank then target yourself)
Wait 1second
[b]End If[/b]
D.Click Mortar by type
Wait for target (set timeout to 2)
Absolute Target (Nightshade in backpack, do not use "by-type" for this)
Wait for Menu (timeout in 15)
Menu option (whatever poison your making)
Wait 200ms
[b]Else[/b]
Hotkey to start Macro:Poisoning
[b]End If[/b]
[b]Else[/b]
D.Click Orange potion by type
Wait 1 second
D.Click Orange potion by type
Wait 999 seconds
Wait 999 seconds
Wait 999 seconds
[b]End If[/b]


This macro will start using random mortars to make poisons if your total number of potions (as dictated by the counter) is less than 15. Once the counter reaches 15, it will likely continue to make 3-8 additional potions, giving you 20. Once it has reached this number it will start the poisoning macro, and if your hitpoints decrease while this macro is running, it will attempt to cure twice (just incase) and then go on a long Pause. This is a worst-case scenario, you are welcome to delete the 999 waits and add a section to heal yourself or drink a heal pot instead. I would rather make sure I am not poisoned, and wait out any attacker. I also have a second character macroing healing on me, just in case, because I am a stat-loss murderer.

Poisoning Macro
Code:
[b]If Hits >= X[/b]
[b]If GreenPotions >= 1 (setup a counter for your poison-potions[/b]
D.Click Orange potion by type
Use skill: Poisoning
Wait for target (timeout in 1)
Target GreenPotion by type
Wait for target (timeout in 15)
Absolute Target (the single blade or fishsteak, do not use by type)
Wait 200ms
[b]Else[/b]
Hotkey to start Macro:Alchemy
[b]End If[/b]
[b]Else[/b]
D.Click Orange potion by type
Wait 1 second
D.Click Orange potion by type
Wait 999 seconds
Wait 999 seconds
Wait 999 seconds
[b]End If[/b]


This macro will repeatedly try to cure yourself with a potion and then use poisoning on the food/weapon. The 1 second timeout on the target after poisoning skill allows it to constantly loop Orange-Potions until you can use the poisoning skill again. Like the above macro, when you use all of your poison potions, it will switch to the alchemy macro to make more, and then repeat into an endless loop. If you are low on health, it will attempt to cure you with potions and then go on a long pause. Again, you are welcome to chance the 999 waits to a healing script ot yellow-potions, but I cannot risk dying.


The reason this macro is better than "Make potion, use potion on blade, repeat"
Contrary to the other guides, the delay on poisoning is LESS than that of alchemy. Also, you can create 20 potions with alchemy in a matter of seconds, as long as you keep using a different mortar. So it is more efficient, time-wise. To spend about 12 seconds making 20+ potions and then using poisoning until the potions are depleted. As you start using the poisoning skill, you will still be making potions with alchemy as the delay begins to be achieved. You should be poisoning constantly, with potions still appearing in your backpack, and every once in a while taking a short 5 second break for the alchemy loop to reload. This is fast, period.

This macro is written in psuedo-code, and displays the correct idea for the macro, I am not going to copy my macro and paste it here, nor do I offer support. Please do NOT PM me regarding skill-gain/macro issues, instead, make a post here and I will respond given the chance.

What to make, and when to make it
From 0 to 51 poisoning, use lesser poison.
From 51 to 68.0 poisoning, use regular poison.
From exactly 68.0 start using Greater poisoning (you can gm like this..)

I estimate that I will use DP for the last 1.5 points or so, but I will update this with the exact numbers...

A listing of my skillgain, and economic cost over time.
Day 1.
Macro Ran for: 5.2 hours
Used Nightshade: 2000
Start/End Alchemy: 0/34.2
Start/End Poisoning: 0/31.1
Total NS used: 2000

Begin Here if you purchased the skills from an NPC
Day 1.5.
Macro Ran for: 5 hours
Used Nightshade: 2721
Start/End Alchemy: 24.2/48.2
Start/End Poisoning: 31.1/53.6
Total NS used: 4721

Begin Here if you started a character with 50/50
Day 2.
Macro Ran for: 4.7 hours
Used Nightshade: 5,986
Start/End Alchemy: 48.2/57.2
Start/End Poisoning: 53.6/68
Total NS used: 10707

68 Seems to be the magic number to stop gaining with regular poison. (Edit: You CAN gain to 70 shown with regular poison, and that is where technical limitations stop gains, but it is slow, I would start Greaters at 68) I tried to move on to Greater Poison, but was failing making them too much. I made 1 whole keg of Greater Strength (about 2500 mandrake) and bumped my alchemy up to 60+, then started the alchemy-poison macro with greater poison. Works great, and after running the numbers, it seems entirely cost-effective to make regular poison until 68 shown. Because they only take 2 nightshade, instead of the GP's 4 nightshade. The gains were not double using GP, so the regular poison was more effective.

Day 3.
Macro Ran for: 25 minutes
Used Nightshade: 0 but used 2500 mandrake for G.Str keg
Start/End Alchemy: 57.2/60.5
Start/End Poisoning: 68/68
Total NS used: 10707

For day 3.5 I accidentally forgot to change the poison type to Greater, and continued using regular (oops). I wasted nightshade, but I learned that you will gain to EXACTLY 70.0 poisoning using regular poison, though I would suggest you start GP at 68.
Day 3.5.
Macro Ran for: 3 hours
Used Nightshade: 3251
Start/End Alchemy: 60.5/64.4
Start/End Poisoning: 68/70
Total NS used: 13958

Here is where I really break into using Greater Poison, and the increase in resources used are really noticable. But not bad for 20 (plus or minus) hours in total so far. Right now I am thinking that it will take 50 hours of constant macro to GM, but we shall see.
Day 4.
Macro Ran for: 3 hours
Used Nightshade: 6129
Start/End Alchemy: 64.4/70.6
Start/End Poisoning: 70/72.5
Total NS used: 20087

Here is where it became apparent that Poisoning is much slower than Alchemy. I imagine this divide will widen as I increase in skill. But overall, skillgain is not too bad. Poisoning seems to be gaining about the same rate (over time) as a skill such as Stealth. Fairly quick to the 70's and then becoming boringly slow yet consistant.
Day 4.5.
Macro Ran for: 4 hours
Used Nightshade: 8974
Start/End Alchemy: 70.6/81.2
Start/End Poisoning: 72.5/78.6
Total NS used: 29061

Day 5.0.
Macro Ran for: 8 hours
Used Nightshade: 10241
Start/End Alchemy: 82.1/88.7
Start/End Poisoning: 78.6/87.9
Total NS used: 39302


Running Total: 168,115 gp, around 5k of which was startup cost spent on mortars/bottles ect..
Current thoughts : Alchemy is now picking up over poisoning, and I think I will gm it with around 93 poisoning.

A final analysis, and cost chart at varied intervals will be posted upon completion.

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Last edited by MatronDeWinter on Sat May 23, 2009 12:10 am, edited 9 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 4:07 am 
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Wow Matron, a sweet guide for any upcoming alchemist/poisoner! ;)

I'm sure I'll use this once I get to work on my character as well!

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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 3:05 am 
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Hell yeah Matron this is sweet! Thanks man!

Like Safir already said, this is perfect for anyone wanting to GM these skills (like myself). :D I've noticed other threads where people have been talking about the cost to GM poison, and it seems to be much debated. Very exciting, I'll be watching to see the results!


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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 11:32 am 
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Ok, just have 1 question. Do you create 2 macros and run both of em at the same time? or is the poisoning macro implemented into the Alchemy macro?


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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2009 2:44 pm 
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Goose wrote:
Ok, just have 1 question. Do you create 2 macros and run both of em at the same time? or is the poisoning macro implemented into the Alchemy macro?


2 Seperate macros, one calls the other. They act as nestled functions in programming so to speak.

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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 4:01 am 
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Is there even an option to get Razor to check for green potions? Only thing that shows in my macro options 'If statement' are heal and cure pots. =/

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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:52 pm 
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hiicha wrote:
Is there even an option to get Razor to check for green potions? Only thing that shows in my macro options 'If statement' are heal and cure pots. =/


Add them to your counter in the display/counters tab.
Then it shows up in the "if" conditional statement.

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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 7:20 pm 
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This is some excellent information, but I keep coming across one problem - Razor seems to always want to choose the mortar and pestle I'm already working with (about 4 out of 5 times), even though I've got like 50 of them. What's up with that?

Edit: The macro is working fine, I just think it's uncanny how often this happens.

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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 8:52 pm 
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2 questions:

1) I was under the impression that orange potions are only consumed if you are poisoned; however, mine are consumed every time I double click them. Is this correct?

2) Are either one of the macros supposed to be looped?

Thanks for a great guide!

N


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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2009 11:09 pm 
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nick13 wrote:
2 questions:

1) I was under the impression that orange potions are only consumed if you are poisoned; however, mine are consumed every time I double click them. Is this correct?

2) Are either one of the macros supposed to be looped?

Thanks for a great guide!

N


both get looped.

The cure potions were changed in a recent patch, just add an if statement

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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:05 am 
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not sure what is happening, but the alchemy part works fine, however when it goes to the poisoning it says i don't have the resources. i have th potions and the blade (katana) could there be something wrong with the timeout portion?

2, do you need to restock bottles, it seems i started with 20 and now i only have 16. do bottles get destroyed?

-Goose


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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:07 pm 
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Goose wrote:
not sure what is happening, but the alchemy part works fine, however when it goes to the poisoning it says i don't have the resources. i have th potions and the blade (katana) could there be something wrong with the timeout portion?

2, do you need to restock bottles, it seems i started with 20 and now i only have 16. do bottles get destroyed?

-Goose


Bottles do not get destroyed. Poisoning shouldnt give you the "not enough resources" error. It's probably just happening when some of the mortars finish grinding and your in the poisoning section.

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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:26 pm 
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It still doesn't work. It says i do not have the resources for poisoning. I have 15-20 poison potions and a Katana. I have played just the poisoning macro too.


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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:59 pm 
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all you need for poisoning is a target (food/weapon) and a poison potion in a bottle. I'm not seeing what your doing wrong here. Post your macro and Ill take a look at it.

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 Post subject: Re: Updated : How to GM Alchemy/Poisoning effectively.
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:48 pm 
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Ok, here they are. I have a second char with GM healing healing the char right now incase he get poisoned, however i havent had to use it yet because i can't get this macro running. So i have taken out some of the long pauses and cure potion drinking because of this.

When i mentioned i couldn't get it to work earlier because of resources, after watching the macro a few times over, it was like the alchemy macro dominated and took over everything. kept trying to play the alcehmy macro. The alchemy macro swtched to the poisoning macro, and once switched, it wouldn't start poisoning, just kept trying to play the alchemy macro again. Also when the alchemy macro was playing, everytime it looped it tried to place the poison macro too.

Pouch with mortars are in my backpack. Bottles are in my backpack (20) and nightshade is in locked down box in my house. not sure if one of these are causing a problem

Here they are. Hope you can read, i can only open the macro script on notepad


Alchemy

Assistant.Macros.IfAction|0|1|55
Assistant.Macros.IfAction|50|0|15|Poison Potion
Assistant.Macros.IfAction|50|0|150|Nightshade
Assistant.Macros.HotKeyAction|0|Restock Agent-1
Assistant.Macros.AbsoluteTargetAction|1|0|0|1804|2230|7|311
Assistant.Macros.PauseAction|00:00:01
Assistant.Macros.EndIfAction
Assistant.Macros.DoubleClickTypeAction|3739|True
Assistant.Macros.WaitForTargetAction|30
Assistant.Macros.TargetTypeAction|False|3976
Assistant.Macros.WaitForMenuAction|0|300
Assistant.Macros.MenuResponseAction|2|3850|0
Assistant.Macros.PauseAction|00:00:00.2000000
Assistant.Macros.ElseAction
Assistant.Macros.HotKeyAction|0|Play: Poisoning
Assistant.Macros.EndIfAction
Assistant.Macros.ElseAction


Poisoning

Assistant.Macros.IfAction|0|1|55
Assistant.Macros.IfAction|50|1|1|Poison Potion
Assistant.Macros.UseSkillAction|30
Assistant.Macros.WaitForTargetAction|30
Assistant.Macros.TargetTypeAction|False|3850
Assistant.Macros.WaitForTargetAction|30
Assistant.Macros.AbsoluteTargetAction|0|0|1076645773|93|66|0|5119
Assistant.Macros.PauseAction|00:00:00.2000000
Assistant.Macros.ElseAction
Assistant.Macros.HotKeyAction|0|Play: Alchemy
Assistant.Macros.EndIfAction
Assistant.Macros.EndIfAction

thanks for the help


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