Party and Guild Chat System Poll

[RoadKill]

Why not have them all and have players choose for themselves. You don't have to use the feature just ignore it and it wouldn't bother you so much.

That's not how a T2A shard functions. Guild chat came about post AOS. We don't have any of the AOS content, why should we have guild chat?

Party chat came out during UOR, we don't have lumberjacking, nox/scribe updates, special hits, why should we have party chat?

[venox]

anything that you use with UO is part of the total t2a experience. to argue that it is not is to say you dont use them or think they should not be used, somehow i dont think that rings true.
shock horror origin also created a chat feature that we call party/guild.
this is no different to using any other program. so what is was created at a later date. i can guarantee there are numerous new programs and numerous alterations to these. not to mention they arnt actually part of the game yet you are not disallowing these?

if you are going to police this you should also police every other external program. otherwise you are simply splitting hairs. pick a line any line. but remember what ever you pick you exclude everything outside it. somehow i dont think that is possible.

green = t2a
red= created by origin
blue= total t2a experience.

[RoadKill]

anything that you use with UO is part of the total t2a experience. to argue that it is not is to say you dont use them or think they should not be used, somehow i dont think that rings true.
shock horror origin also created a chat feature that we call party/guild.
this is no different to using any other program. so what is was created at a later date. i can guarantee there are numerous new programs and numerous alterations to these. not to mention they arnt actually part of the game yet you are not disallowing these?

if you are going to police this you should also police every other external program. otherwise you are simply splitting hairs. pick a line any line. but remember what ever you pick you exclude everything outside it. somehow i dont think that is possible.

green = t2a
red= created by origin
blue= total t2a experience.

Simple concept here. Party and Guild chat did not exist during T2A. External Chat programs did exist. You can't emulate external programs, you can emulate UO's in-game features. Fact still stands, there is more reason for Guild/Party chat to be disabled than enabled. There isn't a valid argument to this if this shard wants to "go for gold" when it comes to accuracy.

Provide me one solid reason as to why a UO:R feature and a Samurai Empire feature should be on a Second Age shard. Leave out external programs, because if you argue that, I'm going to bring up the computer hardware argument, and both of those are out of control of Derrick and the UOSA Staff.

[Mephistopheles]

The game Ultima Online comes in a disc. You install that game onto your computer after inserting the disc into your hard drive. You then patch the game to a certain point (or the newest if you play OSI) and create an account for access and use.

The world that exists outside of that game consists of various methods that you use to communicate with your fellow players in the game. You might opt for a voice chat system, a program that you might have purchased in a store or somewhere else. You might, also, opt for AIM or ICQ as well. Programs that exist outside the game.

The methods with which you are connected to the internet might vary depending on the person asked. Some players here might have a T1 connection and others might have a dial-up modem.

The "T2A Experience" being fanatically opposed by the other side has been distorted. You try and mask the fact that you're afraid of being at a disadvantage with non-sense arguments that amount to nothing more than Red Herrings.

When you are playing the game Ultima Online and you're on a shard that emulates UO in the year 1999 and you can type

/
or
\

To communicate with people in your "party" (I'd also like to note that I don't believe the party system itself existed during T2A. Perhaps I should make another poll for the removal of this era inaccuracy on the shard), when you were playing in 1999, you normally used one of three methods:

1:
! = Yell: Hey!
; = Whisper: Watch out for this guy.

2:
A communication crystal, which automatically transmits messages on the screen to other players at the cost of a "charge"

3:
A PROGRAM THAT YOU INSTALLED THAT WASN'T UO

PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT PROGRAMS THAT AREN'T UO. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PROGRAMS THAT AREN'T UO. YOU'RE NOT HELPING THE SHARD'S OVER-ARCHING GOAL. KNOCK THIS SHIT OFF.

I sincerely wish I could delete posts in threads that I start because the things these people are saying make me feel a little more stupid with every sentence.

You're not allowed to rape logic and truth here. Fuck off.

[Silverfoot]

shock horror origin also created a chat feature that we call party/guild.
this is no different to using any other program. so what is was created at a later date.

I already told you this is not true. The party system allows you to view the mana and stamina bars of your party members. Guild chat can be caught as a system message and used in Razor macros. As for your "so what is was created at a later date" comment, you do realize they are replicating an exact time frame on this shard, right? :S

if you are going to police this you should also police every other external program.

No. As has been stated by staff here, their goal is to come as close to T2A as possible with the game mechanics of the shard, not to try and simulate the exact T2A experience by limiting external programs, forcing similar hardware specifications or anything like that. Only the programmable game mechanics of the shard. Party/Guild chat are game mechanics.

venox, please stop bringing up the issue of external chat programs. As I said, the staff has stated their goal is to recreate the game mechanics of a T2A shard, not to simulate every individual's T2A experience. If you did not use IRC during T2A and you are not comfortable with a large population of the shard sitting in a secondage channel, then I'm sorry, but that is completely a side issue. The party/guild chat system is not the same as IRC, party/guild chat is a shard mechanic, IRC is not.

As for your chart, I will state it a third time, this shard is the recreation of the game mechanics that existed on a T2A shard, not to simulate the entire T2A experience.

All that being said, the only legitimate arguments I have seen so far for not removing this is that it will take time away from working on other game mechanics and the convenience issue.

[Derrick]

As previously stated, Party and Guild chat is of course not accurate. I feel that fixing the communications crystals is a prerequisite for removing these two channels. Additionally tying the IRC into the game chat window would be a bonus.

[Mephistopheles]

And he hath spoken.

[venox]

some public examples of how external programs have been used with uo.

Finesse
-F- are planning for the future and the greater good of the shard.
must use ventrilo [mic or not]

blackfoot
We are currently working on providing support and organization for members to get hunting out there as groups.
You will probably need to be in the IRC to find out when these are happening to please join our IRC room #uoh

roadkill
Looking to sell neon hair dyes and beard dyes
Bid on the following 'sets'

chumbucket
[20:26] Session Ident: Darkradiance (WildIRC, chumbucket)
[20:26] <Darkradiance> lol, nice steal
01[20:26] <chumbucket> ?
[20:26] <Darkradiance> care to name a price for those runes back?


are your telling me its not part of the game?
try not to romanticize uo too much.
imagine you have a bowl. the bottom has t2a written on the bottom. and the bowl is full of cherries, each that represent a chat feature.

you can either (A) accept this as part of the game or (B) tip all the cherries out. too take one cherry out does nothing for your t2a accuracy.

derrick if you manage too pull off what you just stated, i feel it would be a good compromise.

[Mephistopheles]

The poll has ended.

A GM has spoken.

Don't bother posting any more =]

[Mephistopheles]

http://update.uo.com/design_513.html

Apr 14 2005 4:03PM CST

# Added guild and alliance chat

* Use “\” for guild chat
* Use “|” (shift + “\”) for alliance chat
* Guild and alliance chat color and ignore toggles added to options gump

[Biohazard]

i thought it was fairly common knowledge that you do not use negatives in polls

this poll should be redone if it has any bearing on anything

[Wernham Hogg]

Removing party would be stupid.

Theres actually still a few guilds, including mine, who try to pvp without voice-chats. We do think voice-chat-pvp is pretty lame and boring.

Voice-chats werent populair during t2a. So people had to say drop etc ingame.

We do that via party today.

Removing party would leave us no choice but to use ventrilo/teamspeak instead. Saying drop target ingame (not via party) today would simply give the opponent a too big advantage when they use voice-chats.
If they also had to say drop/target ingame (like during T2A), that wouldnt be a problem.

Seriously. Sometimes you have to think about the circumstances around UO thats changed during these 10 years. Voicechat being one of those.

Forcing people to ventrilo pvp seems dumb.

Oh, and as biohazard said, the poll is extremly weird.

[Silverfoot]

i thought it was fairly common knowledge that you do not use negatives in polls

this poll should be redone if it has any bearing on anything

The poll question was edited after it ended.

[Ronk]

Even though the admin has spoken...my 2 cents...

Is party and guild chat era accurate? No. Thats been proven and its a fact.

On that note, I am surprised that it can be removed. I was under the impression the whole chat thing was part of the client but i guess after considering it a little deeper the client must send the data to the server to doll out to others.

I know that prior to the guild chat, the Bloodrock always used MIRC. I use to run UO in window mode with IRC taking up the bottom portion of the screen. This was effectively a 'guild chat'. I do remember the party chat but can't remember if that was T2A or UO:R era.

In my opinion, from a strictly accuracy point of view the guild chat should be removed. It was not era accurate and the lack of it forced the usage of things like ICQ and MIRC.

On that note, I agree fully that voice chat was not popular during T2A and its existence here, in essence, means you'll never have a true T2A experience. Voicechat was in its infancy at that time, plus the speed of the net, made it unusable for most.

And on the topic of not era accurate. Razor is not era accurate either. Nor are our modern clients. So should not the players on this shard be limited to a true T2A client and the use of razor be banned? That would push things more toward true accuracy.

So, lets consider razor for a moment. Razor allows our clients to do many things that were not possible during the T2A era. Its likey that if guild chat and party chat did not exist, that razor would allow us to do these features in which case no one would complain for them to be removed. Razor already mimics UOAM's mapping feature that shows party members on the map.

So in essence, the guild chat/party chat/party system is something that would have been handled by razor had it not be implemented into the client. And removing these from the server would not satisfy anything other than forcing people who play here to download and run more third party software.

Further, given the shards lower population (which is not T2A accurate), I would find it a little silly to further hamper the ability to guilds to find each other and for players to 'group up'.

tldr;
Implement the removal of the guild/party chat only after other key T2A accuracy changes are fixed including the disabling of most non-t2a accurate razor features.

[Wernham Hogg]

I'd be more than happy to see guildchat being removed. It makes it to easy for guilds to organize ingame. I definately think some organisation out of the game is needed for a good guild (read: irc, icq, msn or whatever).

However, as i said before. There should definately be some way to talk to people ingame without everyone on screen seing it. Such as the partychat.
I dont care about healthbars showing mana, or the fact that they dont dissapear of my ally is offscreening.

All i want is a way to say /load xxx and /drop xxx ingame, without using ventrilo/teamspeak.

Removing that option for us, is equal to forcing us to use ventrilo/teamspek, which would be stupid.

Era-accurate or not. 20 ping for the average guy isnt era-accurate either. So we'd have to add some lag aswell then. In this case i definately think we should consider how the third party programs (read: ventrilo) has changed since OSI T2A, and make the decision after that.