Trophies as loot.

[Zane]

I've done the dungeon crawls... They're as much about PvP and PvM as these events are. PKs and Blues work both as enemies and in conjuction with each other.

The Trammel argument is more in favor of "everyone should get something". That's the kind of thinking that brought Trammel. Everyone should have equal access to it all. That's BS.


Now, with all this said.... I'm not looking for "Trammel" events, nor am I talking about such events (not that any really exist... it's amazing how reds can group, but the second a group of blues participating in an event run over a red it becomes something related to Trammel... dungeon crawls are still susceptible to pks from my experience). I accept and embrace the PvP interaction that comes with these events (even if it sucks at times), so stop twisting it please.

This is a discussion about how trophies are awarded at these events and the perceived imbalance that may result.

[chumbucket]

We came. We saw. We looted.

[JoshuaLee]

So Zane what your basically saying is that your mad that you didn't get anything out of these events so you feel that everyone else should share the same misfortune.

[Zane]

So Zane what your basically saying is that your mad that you didn't get anything out of these events so you feel that everyone else should share the same misfortune.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, if you're going to give trophies for event participation, at least find a way to give them to the people who are actually participating.

[JoshuaLee]

So Zane what your basically saying is that your mad that you didn't get anything out of these events so you feel that everyone else should share the same misfortune.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, if you're going to give trophies for event participation, at least find a way to give them to the people who are actually participating.

If you are around the area of the event you are participating. No one said you have to actually do anything. If you are there, you are indeed a part of it.

[GuardianKnight]

So Zane what your basically saying is that your mad that you didn't get anything out of these events so you feel that everyone else should share the same misfortune.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, if you're going to give trophies for event participation, at least find a way to give them to the people who are actually participating.

You said you didn't want it based on damage but this is exactly what you are saying you want at the same time.

There may be a tamer fest but if you hadn't noticed, there was more than enough spawn for other players to make their mark.

Btw. I came just to kill and didn't even look in corpses...i spent the whole time defending against pks and dieing while all the wonderful defenders of town just pretended the pks weren't there and refused to rez.

Maybe if you grouped up and stop expecting to solo events , you would have a better chance of getting something.
I shared the same kind of irritation you have when i basically soloed the cove orc fort when they first implemented the silver coins and i was doing pretty much all the work by the entrance and "stuck" kept on stealing the coins. And Lazarith looted 2 trophies then everyone else just gave up.

Also i am noticing that trophies are becoming the only reason people show up to events. It was clear when everyone started cursing at the shadowmire event. The problem with me or anyone else complaining that trophies should be limited for now on is the simple fact that quite a few of us have lots of them. The only people that can make the decision will have to be Derrick and the other admin.

[Zane]

So Zane what your basically saying is that your mad that you didn't get anything out of these events so you feel that everyone else should share the same misfortune.

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, if you're going to give trophies for event participation, at least find a way to give them to the people who are actually participating.

If you are around the area of the event you are participating. No one said you have to actually do anything. If you are there, you are indeed a part of it.

I guess semantics is the next stage of the argument. If you are at a PvP tournament, are you part of it? If you're at a duel, are you participating in it?

OK then, if this is the rationale why not just give everyone who is "participating" a trophy. I was under the impression that the point of awarding trophies in this way was to avoid this sort of thing. If I'm wrong, so be it. If not, then the current mechanic may need to be refined.

It's funny, because if this is the sort of "participation" that will happen, what's the point of even having these events. Why not just have random days where everyone who logs on gets a trophy (sarcasm, just so it's not misconstrued).

[Zane]

GK (too much to keep quoting):

OK, let me clarify, I don't think damage would be the best route. I'm not entirely sure of the mechanics of trophies, are they in the creature's inventory before they're killed? If not, then it's a random event at death. If this is the case, then is it possible to automatically transfer it to the player who had the death blow (just like the fame/karma system). If there's no better way, then yes, go with damage (if the mechanic is in there already like you say)... or even death blow.


I saw you, who were you grouped with other then your dragons? I spent a lot of time throwing heals, cures, and res'ing where I could (I think even throwing a gheal at you at one point when you were coming back to claim your dragons after a death ). I chatted with people I had met in game before. I ran, defended, and even tried to help others with pks at times. All this while fighting the mobs. I had no problem interacting with people, and I have no problem with you using your dragons... I'm simply suggesting there may be a better way then damage to determine trophy allotment.


And I too said the same thing at the end of Shadowmire, the same thing I'm saying now for this event but more vocally on the forums. I had a great time at both events... but it is frustrating at the end to see others walk away with benefits for simply showing up.


Yes, Derrick is the one who makes the final determination. While I'd rather see them limited then handed out this way (limiting inflates the price of one item [trophy points] while unlimited can inflate the price of many other things), I think hashing out a better way gives him a better idea of what would work. It's too bad that people only show up to events for the trophies. The only reason I'll probably stop going is if they keep ending with the same situation... but that won't necessarily be any time soon.

[SJane3384]

I guess semantics is the next stage of the argument. If you are at a PvP tournament, are you part of it? If you're at a duel, are you participating in it?

OK then, if this is the rationale why not just give everyone who is "participating" a trophy. I was under the impression that the point of awarding trophies in this way was to avoid this sort of thing. If I'm wrong, so be it. If not, then the current mechanic may need to be refined.

It's funny, because if this is the sort of "participation" that will happen, what's the point of even having these events. Why not just have random days where everyone who logs on gets a trophy (sarcasm, just so it's not misconstrued).

If you're standing by at a duel or tourny, there is no danger to you. Being at Vesper last night, everyone had to worry about the mobs and looters were no exception. You couldn't just straight go in, loot corpses, and leave. There were WAY too many orcs, ettins, etc around for that. I think looters just added to the mayhem and fun of the whole thing. You had to hurry up and grab what you wanted from your kill before someone else did.


As far as trophies going to the person who dealt the final blow, what stops these same looters from coming in and waiting until the monster is running before starting to try and hit it as well? This is just as bad as looting, and there's really no way to stop it either.

[GuardianKnight]

Last i heard you could set UOE (an illegal program) to auto loot corpses by creating a script for it. And by the speed that things get looted from corpses here i wouldn't doubt that's the case.

We know people are using UOE to mine, why not consider everyone turned it on for a chance at a trophy?

[Zane]

SJane... JoshuaLee was arguing semantics. At last nights event, sure even standing there was some danger.... but you could run off and let the mobs aggro other players and come right back (which happened). It's no different then a PK coming in and attacking at a duel or PvP event... or watching one outside of town which where mobs can attack. Once again, arguing semantics. It's pointless to the argument.

Sure, there's nothing stopping someone from coming in and stealing deathblow. That was even happening a bit last night (although not with the same intentions I'm sure), but 2 things happen then... 1. They ALSO have to put themselves in the middle of the swarm the fighting players were in and 2. They are actually fighting, in other words they're actually participating.



GK... It certainly is a possibility... I'm not familiar with that program, are there any stop gaps to prevent it? Also, it still doesn't stop the "specatator" dynamic.

[Chaos]

Maybe if we could get a few pks that instead of trying to pk at the events. Maybe they could police them of people trying to only loot. This way they are still at event they will still have chance to kill players .. and still a chance at items.

This being said it is also important that if a few people would agree to do this instead of just pk people and really being a disservice to the event .. we MUST not just run around attacking anything red we see ..

I say that we stop looking up to staff to change things every time there is a problem that can be solved other ways .. I think this would solve alot of the problems people are having with the current set up.

This is just an idea for discussion ..

[GuardianKnight]

Maybe if we could get a few pks that instead of trying to pk at the events. Maybe they could police them of people trying to only loot. This way they are still at event they will still have chance to kill players .. and still a chance at items.

This being said it is also important that if a few people would agree to do this instead of just pk people and really being a disservice to the event .. we MUST not just run around attacking anything red we see ..

I say that we stop looking up to staff to change things every time there is a problem that can be solved other ways .. I think this would solve alot of the problems people are having with the current set up.

This is just an idea for discussion ..

I used to avoid attacking reds unless attacked....then they started grouping up and the first attack was usually the one that did 500 hp damage and killed me instantly.

[Zane]

I used to avoid attacking reds unless attacked....then they started grouping up and the first attack was usually the one that did 500 hp damage and killed me instantly.

I try this approach most of the time as well. It usually fails though lol.

Some of the reds there last night were there just to participate... but others went straight for the kill with me. It's another layer to the mess really, and I'm not sure any idea involving policing by reds would work.


On a related note, I have seen reds just trying to participate in an event get swarmed by blues. It was happening to one last night, and happened to one at a dungeon crawl. It's another reason why policing by reds would be problematic.


Willing to give it a shot at the next event though lol.

[JoshuaLee]

Maybe if we could get a few pks that instead of trying to pk at the events. Maybe they could police them of people trying to only loot. This way they are still at event they will still have chance to kill players .. and still a chance at items.

This being said it is also important that if a few people would agree to do this instead of just pk people and really being a disservice to the event .. we MUST not just run around attacking anything red we see ..

I say that we stop looking up to staff to change things every time there is a problem that can be solved other ways .. I think this would solve alot of the problems people are having with the current set up.

This is just an idea for discussion ..

I can assure you that the reds could care less about the loot, it's just a bonus if it's around.