Just read this ... It'll make sense

[Jaster]

There have been 3 public ventrilos that I can think of, which didn't house that many players. Someone else choosing to create a public IRC is their call, and it would be up to the players. The staff can easily monitor general chat [not having it at all], and make the help and support room to where players answer their question then must remove themselves from the room after, and there being an away timer.

IRC was big back in the day, mostly for guild/friend chat, not server chat. And when there was server chat, remember, the servers had thousands of people that "PAID" for the game.

PAID is the key. People weren't gonna pay for uo, then sit afk in uo, and talk in IRC all day. They paid to get their moneys worth. On a freeshard, they are choosing what gives them the most interest. IRC was set up for players to use that are playing the server, not the server set up for players to use that talk in IRC all day.

[DrFaustus]

People PAID for UO because it was THE GAME back in the day.

I can name a lot of other games that are more worth my $10-$15 a month. Like I said in my first post, this game is quite old. The folks playing here are mostly people that are "returning" to it for the love of the game...

In my opinion if we went as far as to re-create complete UO accuracy as it was during T2A (IE: Take that exact point in time and essentially cut/paste it) we wouldn't have very many people playing. There are things in place now that make UO more enjoyable IMO. AKA Razor, which also have adverse effects on how many people you see manually working their skills in the world.

[Hemperor]

I think the whole IRC thing is going pretty off topic here... TBH I don't think it affects anything...and if it does it would be pretty minimal.

[Jaster]

There are things in place now that make UO more enjoyable IMO. AKA Razor, which also have adverse effects on how many people you see manually working their skills in the world.

What things make UO more enjoyable today in your opinion that we didn't have then, minus perhaps faster connections?

[Historic_Metal]

Everyone is neglecting the most simple solution to this problem of players not being active. I say simple, but that does not necessarily mean doable.

BAN AFK macroing, not just resource macroing but all of it. Make gaining skills an active part of the game again, like how I remember it on T2A.

If this were done properly I could forsee 2 possible outcomes:

1) the standing playerbase at a given time will drop greatly because there are less AFK macroers and the server will lose its popularity

or (the ideal) 2) the standing playerbase will drop slightly or remain about the same because people, even macroers, will be more engaged when their character is logged in, if nothing else talking to other players and maybe leaving the macro to do something. This increased level attention to the game will strengthen the community and ultimately increase the playerbase.

One of the biggest discrepancies between how I remember playing on OSI and how free servers are is that here character building has become just a hurdle to jump over before you begin playing the game for real. Personally, I would like to see character building become something more active. If there were more non 7x gm characters running around you might be more apt to pvp before your character is "complete."

Of course, this type of policy would be difficult to enforce... But I think it can be done, and I think, while there would certainly be a reaction, it might be beneficial in the long run.

[Hemperor]

Everyone is neglecting the most simple solution to this problem of players not being active. I say simple, but that does not necessarily mean doable.

BAN AFK macroing, not just resource macroing but all of it. Make gaining skills an active part of the game again, like how I remember it on T2A.

If this were done properly I could forsee 2 possible outcomes:

1) the standing playerbase at a given time will drop greatly because there are less AFK macroers and the server will lose its popularity

or (the ideal) 2) the standing playerbase will drop slightly or remain about the same because people, even macroers, will be more engaged when their character is logged in, if nothing else talking to other players and maybe leaving the macro to do something. This increased level attention to the game will strengthen the community and ultimately increase the playerbase.

One of the biggest discrepancies between how I remember playing on OSI and how free servers are is that here character building has become just a hurdle to jump over before you begin playing the game for real. Personally, I would like to see character building become something more active. If there were more non 7x gm characters running around you might be more apt to pvp before your character is "complete."

Of course, this type of policy would be difficult to enforce... But I think it can be done, and I think, while there would certainly be a reaction, it might be beneficial in the long run.

I 100% agree with you and have been preaching this for a long while.

However, it always falls on deaf ears. Nearly every player here is a RunUO player veteran, character building is no longer something that is done while at the computer...or over the course of a few months, like it was on OSI. IMO, this was a vital part of UO and what made it fun.

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

Razor does everything but make UO more enjoyable, to start a character back when I had no third party programs on OSI, I would make my little toon with 50 resising spells, 50 healing, train fencing and get out there and kill some random spawn.


I had fun, I met new people got pked, and just generally experienced UO first hand, and I was playing at a lot because that was enjoyable.


Now with razor and multiclienting, I no longer make A new character, I make THREE new characters, each one constantly macroing there skills, I don't even bother playing because I know the macros can GM my skills faster than me.

It's really quite disgusting actually, people macro there characters up and play UO just for the PVP, and they get 1/100 of the UO experience, and when everyone does it everyone gets 1/100 of the UO experience.

veryone is neglecting the most simple solution to this problem of players not being active. I say simple, but that does not necessarily mean doable.

BAN AFK macroing, not just resource macroing but all of it. Make gaining skills an active part of the game again, like how I remember it on T2A.

If this were done properly I could forsee 2 possible outcomes:

1) the standing playerbase at a given time will drop greatly because there are less AFK macroers and the server will lose its popularity

I would love this, but this is impossible to implement on this server, why?

Because everyone here believes they cant have fun without a Stable of 7X GMS, most of the people here are getting into there 30's and they don't want to spend any time playing on a newbie character.



This is what UO is now though, who knows maybe a server without macroing might work, but we'll never find out here.

(I'm not bashing the server just want to tell what seems logical)

[Historic_Metal]

Because everyone here believes they cant have fun without a Stable of 7X GMS, most of the people here are getting into there 30's and they don't want to spend any time playing on a newbie character.



This is what UO is now though, who knows maybe a server without macroing might work, but we'll never find out here.

(I'm not bashing the server just want to tell what seems logical)

Yeah it's like when people become high school teachers so they can go back and try to become what they wanted to be in high school. Everybody wants to be the 7x badass that they weren't when the game was most fun. Only a few of us actually want to relive the game how it was

[Hemperor]

Yeah it's like when people become high school teachers so they can go back and try to become what they wanted to be in high school. Everybody wants to be the 7x badass that they weren't when the game was most fun. Only a few of us actually want to relive the game how it was

Couldn't have said it better...

You will than have those that claimed they had 7x every character...they play the same game in the multi-clienting and "3 accounts" issue...heck...half the players here were GODS of UO and you wouldn't even know it

[Jaster]

Macroing becoming illegal would be interesting. It is one of those things that you could say is to late to change though. Which falls into the same category as the thread talking about how many clients should be allowed at one time per IP.

I am not against this.

The IRC suggestion is something that can be modified. I believe that it will show a drastic change in people playing, even if it is only at small spurts at a time for a while, as all changes made have been a little closer to promoting visual activity. Events were cut down from their original amount to bring more players playing the game. It worked ... more played instead of just waiting for events. This happened twice, and both times there was a positive outcome.

This is a sense is the same thing. Limiting IRC to help and support or up to the players to create something on their own and moderate it themselves. If you want to have a trash talk channel, you are welcome to have it and moderate it yourself.

Currently the default uosecondage IRC channel houses trash talk, help/support, outside of game discussions, event promotion, trade channel ... Of this list, help/support is the only one that really needs an IRC channel, the rest can be done in game, allowing for more player interaction. That is my goal here ... to promote visual activity on the shard.

[Hemperor]

The IRC thing I think is irrelevant, but if others think it would help I would certainly not be against your suggestions.

I know Derrick has allowed macroing discussions in the distant past...would be worth discussing. It's one of those things that would even itself over time, sure the new players may have a disadvantage at first, but there are new players all the time. It would be a call to all big blues to stand up for a while against reds.

[DrFaustus]

There are things in place now that make UO more enjoyable IMO. AKA Razor, which also have adverse effects on how many people you see manually working their skills in the world.

What things make UO more enjoyable today in your opinion that we didn't have then, minus perhaps faster connections?

Not having to cast the light spell every 3 seconds.

I just don't think anyone realizes that UO servers, no matter how era accurate you try to make them, won't have the population they use too. It's impossible.

[RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR]

I like'd the dark dungeons, it really made it the dungeon experience a lot more hectic.

Well if they banned macroing now I wouldn't even notice, because I've already gmed all the characters I need.

It is stupid how this shard was so inaccurate in the past, and because of that inaccuracy people could do things so much easier, like building tamers, or farming order guards, or healing. But macroing would be the hugest early advantage of all of those things, simply because it allowed us all to make a stable of 7X's.

It's almost as if we need a server wipe for such a change, but that could never happen here because people will feel that they will be cheated out of the fruits of their labor.

People would probably leave.

Anyways I haven't been here long enough to make a suggestion like that, and It's really not my place.

[DrFaustus]

Everyone has their place...considering you probably have just as much equity as the next guy...

All it really takes is one 5-6x and a bard and you're set. You really don't need more than a small house or two.

A wipe is what's truly needed if you want to find true accuracy, but I wouldn't even consider that until this shard has been deemed "era accurate"

[benny-]

I'm (obviously) a couple days late jumping into this discussion, I hadn't noticed the post until just now, but I thought it was a good discussion and wanted to put in some similar ideas that Ive had lately.

There's been much talk lately as to account reduction, limiting 1 account per IP in order to eliminate multiclienting, and now, here, talk of eliminating afk macroing altogether.

Both multiclienting and afk macroing (as well as the daily events, though that is another argument of it's own) have been my biggest turnoffs since the first day I joined the shard, last year.

I think what we have here in Secondage is an extremely accurate shard (in terms of details and mechanics), by far the best replica of T2A that Ive ever seen. However the gameplay is nothing like T2A gameplay.

Gone are the days of going out into the world, being forced to venture into unknown territories at the risk of being found by pks all to advance, to work a char. This, to me, was T2A. Yes there is still fielding, yes there are still some reds waiting to find you outside of the safety of the guardzones. But gone is the requirement to venture out to work a char, instead we have macroing. Gone are reds who patrolled dungeons, risking dieing themselves in order to find blues, we now have ghosting. Gone is finding other players ingame to help you advance, or to help you hunt, give a gate, etc., instead we have players using multitudes of side chars to become self-sufficient.

While there are still some similarities between Secondage and actual T2A, it is obvious that the game has changed from one of risk vs. reward and cooperative gameplay that took place all over the map to one of multiclienting and macroing, where players sit idly and use the quickest means to yield the most effective result.

If Secondage will ever truly be an era-accurate shard, one where the game is played and enjoyed in the same way that it was back in those glory days, the rules and the mechanics will have to revert to how it was back then. If you're ever going to get something close to the T2A experience, multiclienting and afk macroing will have to be removed.

I know that there are countless posts opposing such major changes. Arguments of hurting counts, driving off players, or how such changes would be unfair for newer players (as the rest of us have already benefited from macroing to produce finished chars.) Or that such changes are too late or untimely and could've only worked upon the creation of the shard. But Im not convinced.

Until such changes are made we will never have a game that is played in an even similar manner to how T2A was played and we will continue seeing the endless problems that multiclienting and macroing bring about.

So if it were decided that these things would be removed. How could it be done in such a way as to not kill the shard? I agree that to simply get rid of these two would be disastrous, but if these were a part of something larger, something to help bring about these changes in a positive way, Im convinced it would work.

For example, say with the announcement of such major changes there was also a rather small skillwipe and also very large community effort towards advertisement.

As for a skillwipe, what we could have would be something like a 10% skill loss to all chars, to where instead of having an all out charwipe (which would probably kill the shard), all chars would remain good, advanced chars, but would now have to work back up to beoming completely finished. This combined with the removal of afk macroing, would force players to go out into the game and begin working their chars, trying to compete with each other for "finished" chars.

This would also lower the bar a bit, allowing new players to have a chance at making competing chars with the veterans (where as no skill loss would equal finished chars and players unable to make finished chars).

It would also bring back the concept of having 7x chars being nearly nonexistant. Back in actual T2A very few chars had skills like Resist completely gm'd, most players fielded with unfinished chars, something that would happen again if the last 10% of all skills had to be obtained by playing the game rather than afk macroing. By having an entirely finished char become again something that required time invested and lots of work ingame, we would again see players playing the game eagerly as they once again had something very hard to achieve to work towards. We'd see tamers and provokers out in the world, at spawns, trying to cap their skills, we'd see guilds using daemons and other methods to work pvp skills, all of these in place of tamers and bards at the stables, or mages at the banks.

As for the second part of the idea; advertisement. If such major changes to the game coincided with say a month long attempt to bring attention to the shard, we could have a community effort to bring in new players and to make Secondage an even larger shard in the free shard community. Things such as voting, banners, videos, etc could be promoted by the community.

Ingame, this could coincide with a series of events either player or staff driven, to help create activity ingame which would create more interest ingame and help to draw in and keep new players. When I first started there were a series of themed events centering around Shal'Etar (sp?). These were a huge turnon for me and really grabbed my interest when I first came here.

I'll sum up this longwinded post, as Im sure very few of you are still reading by now =D. These are just a collection of ideas I have had over this last week. But to conclude Ill say this:

If we want an accurate shard some major changes have to take place. If we want to do this in a way that will help the shard grow and not hinder the playerbase it will have to be done in a positive way to help stimulate the shard rather than hurt it by simply changing major aspects of the shard.