Swing on the run (dexing)

[nightshark]

Subject: Instant Hit is broken?

Wait wait wait - so in order to hit someone I'm adjacent to, I have to be adjacent to them for a full .25?

It's actually quite different than this. It's not possible to be in any position for less than 0.25 seconds; Everything is processed based on a single location for your character each tick.

Researching on the forums, I did come across this quote from Derrick. If location of a player is based on ticks, and it's not possible to be in one location for less than .25 seconds, why doesn't your weapon refresh in that .25s?

Are locations based in ticks on UOSA or do they flow freely?

[iamreallysquall]

i don't entirely agree matty made them sound like they are paper thin despite high ar , you guys all make them out to be totally useless any they aren't.

The proof is in the numbers. Most pure dexxers has moved on to other shards because their templates are not viable here. If dexxing was viable then the shard would have a more era accurate mix of tanks and dexxers. Yeah, some dexxers against some targets can pull it off, I think most people are looking in general at everyone overall.

I'm sorry, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with dexxers here. Considering you can stock yourself with charged weapons, explosion pot, invis/teleport/reflect items and heal wands, any dexxer can become potentially unkillable with insane DPS.

If you run around with GM weapons and crappy stock, then of course the character seems less viable. Dexxers are far more item based than mages are, and they have to be played properly. Calling a poison vanq wielding, explosion pot throwing wand/jewelery using dexxer not viable is just silly though.

i have seen both TG and other guilds use dexer + tank mage in numbers and the dexer becomes a huge annoyance in the fight basicaly taking the person they are on out of the fight as the are constantly moving if the dexer is good at moving + has teleport omg major annoyance

[Ronk]

i have seen both TG and other guilds use dexer + tank mage in numbers and the dexer becomes a huge annoyance in the fight basicaly taking the person they are on out of the fight as the are constantly moving if the dexer is good at moving + has teleport omg major annoyance

Yes, I get it. A dexxer who is decked out in 100k gear is able to not die and able to harass someone while the tank mages do all the work. This is nothing new and no one is arguing against this.

[iamreallysquall]

or the dexer kills stuff because they are good and wreck the bad tank mage ?

[Malaikat]

or the dexer kills stuff because they are good and wreck the bad tank mage ?

The operative of course being "bad".

So you basically just said that a dexer who has mastered the pvp mechanics and carries 100k worth of gear may be able to kill a tank who is bad at pvp. And you seem ok with that.

[iamreallysquall]

or the dexer kills stuff because they are good and wreck the bad tank mage ?

The operative of course being "bad".

So you basically just said that a dexer who has mastered the pvp mechanics and carries 100k worth of gear may be able to kill a tank who is bad at pvp. And you seem ok with that.

just had a dexer on foot swing at me while i was running past him =\ (i did not stop moving)

[Mens Rea]

It's dead. Cease flogging.

[Ronk]

Subject: Instant Hit is broken?

Wait wait wait - so in order to hit someone I'm adjacent to, I have to be adjacent to them for a full .25?

It's actually quite different than this. It's not possible to be in any position for less than 0.25 seconds; Everything is processed based on a single location for your character each tick.

Researching on the forums, I did come across this quote from Derrick. If location of a player is based on ticks, and it's not possible to be in one location for less than .25 seconds, why doesn't your weapon refresh in that .25s?

Are locations based in ticks on UOSA or do they flow freely?

This is a really good point/question. If this is accurate, does that mean that, in theory, if yo uare next to a person (even while they are moving) in the .25 tick that you should get an attack?

[Kaivan]

Subject: Instant Hit is broken?

Wait wait wait - so in order to hit someone I'm adjacent to, I have to be adjacent to them for a full .25?

It's actually quite different than this. It's not possible to be in any position for less than 0.25 seconds; Everything is processed based on a single location for your character each tick.

Researching on the forums, I did come across this quote from Derrick. If location of a player is based on ticks, and it's not possible to be in one location for less than .25 seconds, why doesn't your weapon refresh in that .25s?

Are locations based in ticks on UOSA or do they flow freely?

This is a really good point/question. If this is accurate, does that mean that, in theory, if yo uare next to a person (even while they are moving) in the .25 tick that you should get an attack?

No, not really.

To explain further, this issue is best answered using a question: How is stamina drain due to movement handled in UO?

Without getting into any broad theory, it seems obvious that if things are recalculated every tick, and you are only ever in a single location when that tick occurs, the only way to actually calculate stamina drain is to have some way to reference your position between ticks and to determine your stamina loss based on that information. This is exactly how UO actually calculated stamina drain.

The way it works is that each player has a small matrix stored on their character that has their character at the center of the matrix. Each tick, if a player has moved, their matrix will have the movement recorded from their starting position at the center of the matrix. Based on the distance from the center of the matrix, the server will calculate whether you're running or walking and will apply a proper stamina drain algorithm to your character each tick. Finally, after determining whether you've moved or not, the server will reset your position to the center of your matrix for the next tick. This, of course, is a somewhat broad description of the system as a whole, and doesn't dive into the specific details of the stamina drain algorithm or the matrix itself works, but is suffices for this example.

Riding on the previous example, the weapon code can easily put in a small check each tick before stamina drain is calculated that checks the distance from the center of a given player's matrix. If the distance is greater than 0, then the player has moved at least one tile since the last tick. This check can be wrapped around the rest of the combat code, preventing your swing from advancing if you've moved between two ticks. Hopefully this explanation gives you a good enough idea of how this works. If not, Derrick will likely have to take up the reigns on how movement works in UO.

[tanmits]

An Corp

[Roser]

I want to share a PM a sent to Kaivan regarding the SOTR issue.

titled "Tiny Wizard Cheese Wedge"

I'm picturing a wedge and a line broken down into three part's, the beginning, middle, and end.

At the beginning of the line is the initiation of a combat timer. The combat timer begins to count down until it hits the middle of the line.

The middle of the line is the ready state of the combat timer. The ready state waits for a target to be in range, once a target is in range it moves to the end of the line.

The end of the line is the final result of the cycle, a weapon swing is calculated and the combat animation of a tiny wizard is seen.

Lastly, the wedge is a .25 second pause that must take place in the tiny wizards movement before anything on the line can advance.


Ok... tiny wizards and wedgies... I know, just bear with me for a sec...

On UOSA I understand that the wedge in this scenario is placed at the beginning of this line. Before a weapon cycle can begin, a small pause must occur in the players movement.

Kaivan, what if the wedge was placed in between the middle and the end of the line? Would this be in agreement with the evidence we have for a movement restriction in the combat timer?

I picture what it would look like on UOSA, and I think it would make for some sound combat. Also, any thoughts on this thread?

Heres a text picture of the line i was talking about:

(V)I-----I-----I (with wedge at the start)

I-----I--(V)---I (with wedge where I am suggesting)

Trust me it makes sense....

[Rhis]

Does anyone else struggle to even kill monsters that run away? I can't count how many times I have run up to one, been unable to attack (100 dex/fast weapon), taken an insta-hit from the monster, at which point it moves one more tile and i'm left playing catch up again. Annoying. I'm positive it wasn't like this in era... noone would have played a dexxer.

I can't imagine how bad it must be in pvp.

[Roser]

Rhis, that sounds like a synthesis of the "movement restriction" and "strutting".

Many melee users share your pain.

[Faust]

The original swing timer code is there for everyone to see.

If you think that it's possible to mimic or implement the code for insta hit with a reasonable consideration of the changes that followed suit than by all means go for it.

I do know that you could not 'cycle' a weapon on the move and there was a reason people associated it with spell casting.

[Roser]

The original swing timer code is there for everyone to see.

If you are referring to the Demo code, it has been stated a few times before in this thread, that the movement restriction is NOT part of the "Original Code"