PvP suggestions

[Orsi]

yea but with the true precast you didn't need a disarm macro, you didn't even need to disarm for the current spell

That was before T2A.

[bOmb]

Incorrect Scythe. The pvp in T2A era allowed a mage to target thier opponent while equiped and not have the spell fizzle OR disarm, which is what was suggested that Derrick look into to make this shard stand out.

[Derrick]

I don't remeber it ever being like that myself during the era, but I'm looking for a source, or hopeing someone else will provide a source to confirm this.

[bOmb]

Its easier for me to remember real precast than slow med through armor (which I honestly dont remember) because I pvped in that era. Im not sure where to get a source because it was 10 years ago heh.

I read somewhere that t2a was from 1998-FEB1999, which was when I believe they changed the precast. Ill try looking. Does anyone else from this era remember it with the real precast?

EDIT: I found in some ancient forum archives threads from old guilds that discussed the true precast system back in 1999. ALso I found that the change was closer to November in 1999. But cant find anything official either.

[platy]

wtf is going on here??
You guys are trying to make a T2a Style shard repping "The way it was" when not a single one of you can even remember how T2a was.. not even the GM's/Dev's!! This is no good for UOSecondAge.. I fear if no changes are made, then this server will remain a Div clone--And I am set up over there not here so it won't be a hard choice where to play.. Let me ask you this Derrick: Do you really (honestly) think the precast system you have now is how OSI had it? Do you EVER remember fizzing on spells when you had a wep equipped?
Cmon guys get this shit together.. =\

[Derrick]

I do not believe you could target with a weapon equipped during any period of T2A. Maybe you could in February of 99, but at that point I think I was still tailoring fancy shirts, so I wouldn't have noticed.

However, I've been know to be wrong before on some little issues so I'm leaving this open for productive discussion.

We are far from being a Div clone.

I would very much like to find the exact behavior of arming while spell sequencing, arming with target up, and targeting while armed, but I have not seen it and cannot make changes from memories that aren't pinned down to a specific time frame. Most of the combat and other systems on the server were crafted from concrete, specific and reliable documentation from the era. At this time we do not have that quality of information for the pre-cast. I'm sure it's out there and when we find it we'll be able to close this issue.

[Derrick]

Well I did a little research this morning.
The following link is Pre-T2A, March or April '98 and is when they allowed spellbooks to be equippable.
Old Update

• Spellbooks will be equippable. This is a purely cosmetic change. It will not change the mechanics of casting at all (except that you will be able to cast with the spellbook in your hands).

I have not yet been able to find a more detailed previous update that addresses specific "casting mechanics" but this line certainly indicates that you could not cast with a weapon equipped at this time.

I am going to continue to research this but in the absence of any further details we will likely implement target-disarm soon as we seem to have a good consensus that it is era accurate.

[Derrick]

I've found some details:

Pre-casting Jan 3 2000 10:07AM CST

• The bug involving the ability to “pre-cast” spells and then use or take items will be fixed. After casting a spell, the targeting cursor will disappear if the player does any of the following:
  Equips or unequips an item.
  Takes an item.
  Drags an item from their backpack.

So no pre-casting at all was made effective during the era. It was then reverted later:

Combat Damage Changes Aug 20 2001 2:34AM CST

• Pre-Casting
  "Pre-casting" has been re-enabled as follows:
• You cannot equip anything while you are casting.
• After you cast a spell, it will "time out" after 30 seconds and can no longer target anything. During those 30 seconds, you can now equip a weapon, attack with it without ruining your stored spell. When you release the spell, you will automatically unwield your weapon.

This satisfies the level of detail I wanted to find on this, and also explains why there was confusion as the what the mechanics of the era were.

wtf is going on here??
You guys are trying to make a T2a Style shard repping "The way it was" when not a single one of you can even remember how T2a was..

T2A was a long era with many drastic changes, therefore people remember a Lot of different things. This is why we try whenever possible to base things on concrete detailed information. Did anyone else remember this patch to remove Pre-Cast in January of 2000? I do now that I've read the post, but please remember that staff are not walking libraries. Although Second Age staff does represent a diversity of playstyles, the mechanics of UO are huge and we can't always give a specific immediate answer to any question that comes up.

We will implement Pre-Cast as it was reverted in the Aug 20 2001 patch:

• You cannot equip anything while you are casting.
• After you cast a spell, it will "time out" after 30 seconds and can no longer target anything. During those 30 seconds, you can now equip a weapon, attack with it without ruining your stored spell. When you release the spell, you will automatically unwield your weapon.

[alatar]

We will implement Pre-Cast as it was reverted in the Aug 20 2001 patch:

You cannot equip anything while you are casting.
After you cast a spell, it will "time out" after 30 seconds and can no longer target anything. During those 30 seconds, you can now equip a weapon, attack with it without ruining your stored spell. When you release the spell, you will automatically unwield your weapon.

So basically we're just getting the basic precast back..

[alatar]

Anatomy Damage Bonus
A bug causing the anatomy damage bonus to be doubled against players will be fixed. However, the maximum damage bonus for anatomy will be increased to 30% upon reaching 100.0 skill (the damage bonus will still be 20% for players with less then 100.0 anatomy skill.

I took this off the page you listed above, does this apply here as well?

[bOmb]

Derrick, I checked out those patches as well, and can remember some of them very clearly. Me and my friends when playing OSI were into exploits and pvp. I used the Blade Spirit bug to GM resist, ect which are all on that patch page. I am almost 100% sure that they stopped precast becuase of the bug you posted with taking items, which Im sure everyone of my friends did on OSI. This patch made it so that you couldnt equip with a cursor up, which was the last patch before I quit UO.

I pvp'd in 1998-99 and remember precisely how I played: sat in deciet with Explo up, when a blue entered, drop expl, cast flamestrike, equip hally and run until instahit then drop FS through hally.

Sorry to say but with all the scripted events, and same precast etc. this is almost an exact copy of div. but with mounts and some wierd med/armor rule set.

EDIT: If you didnt fight or pvp during the t2a era Derrick, then how would you make it authentic? Not remembering and never knowing are different. If you were starting a tailor in 1999, then there were almost 1.5-2 years of pvp skills learned before you even knew. By the time you entered the pvp scene, it was probably a lot different then it was when you first bought the box and started. Just an observation.

BTW alatar, do you remember "the way it was?"

[DemonArkanis]

Ok being a pvping tank mage from pre t2a and on, one of few on the server, I just want to jump in and say that during this era I remember it being an auto unequip, not cast through weapon. Cast through weapon was pre t2a and if anything was removed early during t2a. If this were the case then it is solely up to Derrick as to which ruleset he would like to follow. Now I know none of us have a perfect memory but just going by my personal experience and memory I'll just go on record saying I do believe it was an auto removal of weapon upon targeting.

[alatar]

It was definatly an auto-disarm feature, you weren't not required to manually disarm a weapon at that time. The only reason I know this is back then I don't believe (not 100% sure) that they even had the "Advanced" button to create chars, so my starting character was a warlock, which now translates into a hybrid or, 'tank mage'...

BTW alatar, do you remember "the way it was?"

No I can't honestly say I have a clear memory of that time, as I didn't know much about the game myself.. By the time I advanced into the pvp scence UO:R had already hit and I had become infamous with stun..

[Khronus]

We will implement Pre-Cast as it was reverted in the Aug 20 2001 patch:

You cannot equip anything while you are casting.
After you cast a spell, it will "time out" after 30 seconds and can no longer target anything. During those 30 seconds, you can now equip a weapon, attack with it without ruining your stored spell. When you release the spell, you will automatically unwield your weapon.

I didnt get to pvp at this era but this changes seems to be the best solution to me. This server is suppost to be as accurate to t2a as it can be but since there were lots of changes like derrick says we should get the best of it... The equiping weapon while casting seems a little overpowered in my opinion.

[Derrick]

Anatomy Damage Bonus
A bug causing the anatomy damage bonus to be doubled against players will be fixed. However, the maximum damage bonus for anatomy will be increased to 30% upon reaching 100.0 skill (the damage bonus will still be 20% for players with less then 100.0 anatomy skill.

I took this off the page you listed above, does this apply here as well?

Nothing in the 2001 post-UO:R patch applies, it was only a reference to the original Pre-Cast behavior.