- My "lame" 4 sources.Faust wrote:Here is a short and long version of the description for what is incorrect about weapon mechanics currently. I wrote the short version in another thread to explain it further. It doesn't add any proof with patches, research, etc... If you want all of that you will have to read the long version of the article. I'm adding the short version, because this entire process has been very complex for a lot of people to grasp or understand. I hope this helps for more understanding towards the problem and the solution for this.
Short Version:
RunUO timers are static for all weapons. We put in the instant hit refresh based on memories and documentation that back those memories up. This was the first phase where you could "speed" up your swing. I guess some people like to call this a "fast swing" on here. The problem with this was that it had a bug to where you could swing around 1.5 second instead of the 2.0 seconds that existed back in t2a. Also, the way it worked is kind of a mystery. We know it works but there is no hard code to duplicate the feature. The only logical explanation that we could come up with was basing it off of wrestling, since you unequip a weapon it converts the delay to 2 seconds etc... However, this was the incorrect approach after my later discoveries that is explained in the long version involving a similar unequip delay based off of an average delay of 2 seconds. This is where the new combat changes sprung up pretty much. There was still errors in the combat mechanics besides this though.
There has always been an equip delay when you equip a weapon. I will explain an example of this by using a halberd. A halberd has a swing delay of 4.5 seconds when you swing the weapon. Well on the Ultima Online demo if you equipped a weapon your delay would reset the swing delay. This means soon as you equipped a halberd your swing delay would be 4.5 seconds and you couldn't swing again until it ticked down to zero. This same equip delay exists in present UO and is in the RunUO default code as well.
All shards end up removing this delay because obviously you could not insta hit if a delay was reset everytime you equipped a weapon. Right? Well the problem is that this equip delay was still present in UO based on a patch note that describes it being tweaked in the UOR publish for archery. Well how it works is very simple. If you have an active combat delay the equip delay would be applied and if there is no active delay your swing would be ready for an insta hit. This is why hallies can seem "slower" if you think about it. If you mess up like I previously said while equipping your weapon you can reset your swing delay. This takes a lot more accuracy and precission skill wise to get your swings off correctly without screwing up your combat delay.
Long Version:
A few weeks back I found some pretty impressive information in regard to the way combat mechanics and refreshing your insta hit works. First, I want to tell you that this will probably be one of the longest posts that you will ever read, because there is such an enormous amount of information that will be presented in the post. Please try to bare with me for this very reason.
People need to remember that this shard is all about accuracy. I want to show everyone what I know and found to simply discuss in a civil manner and to get your opinions. This isn't a discussion to suggest other ideas or what might be better to do etc... It is a discussion to solve the major problems that I discovered with the way weapons function here that makes more sense if you follow all the precise information that I have found. Hopefully if there is a positive reaction we can fix some of the major problems with PVP right now. Please try to follow the information below the best you can.
We have officially confirmed that refreshing your swing was possible during the '99 era through relentless research that falls in line with the memories of many Ultima Online veterans that played the game then. Those that are not familiar with this discussion here is an article I wrote in regard to this previously.
Faust wrote:
More information dug up. This was obtained from an old JoV post that Nighthawk(an old friend and fellow guild member) from wtfman.com posted up many many years ago. The interesting part about this story is the real time involving the journal that is displayed in a picture on there.
Take a special look at the 5th line beside the picture...
Nighthawk wrote:
5> Hally, Ebolt, Hally, Ebolt (as he tries to heal)
Now let's think about this while including the journal log. Take a special notice to the 3 greater heals. It is quite obvious that the first two of them were disturbed since this guy died in a matter of a few seconds from that point. The hally interupts the first Greater Heal, and the ebolt is released to interupt his second Greater Heal attempt. Another ebolt is casted followed by a hally hit RIGHT after a hally hit just occurred. With a finishing ebolt for the kill. Here is yet more evident proof in a REAL LIFE time span clearly displayed on this journal that shows that you could "ebolt, hally, ebolt, hally". If you had to wait the 5 second delay on the hally there is abolutely no way you could have disturbed three greater heals in this manner without it overriding the delay when you casted a 6th circle spell not to mention even do an ebolt, hally, ebolt, hally this quickly...
Reference: http://www.wtfman.com/oldjov/stories/nhawk19.htm
The major hurdle for implementing this system into UOSA, which we have already done was to come up with a logical reason for this feature to exist. What we concluded was that it had to be involved with the wrestling timer after you unequipped the weapon. However, I found some information a few weeks ago while researching that contradicts this entire theory that actually explains how it worked based on patches, articles, and other related Ultima Online information. Here is an article that I wrote that discusses this.
Faust wrote:
Here is the piece of information that I found that solves the mechanical functions of the insta hit refresh. I stumbled upon this information while doing research for a non-related issue. Here is the quote below from a person complaining on Stratics about the changes and upcoming changes in early February of '99.
Quote:
Disarming Weapons: gives a 2 second delay. Ok, wonderful but this goes hand in hand with the hit being calculated at the beginning of each swing to cause further inbalances.
Reference: http://uo.stratics.com/warfare/hallnews ... ocookies=1
This above was the last section on the article referring to the new changes. What this means is that when you disarm a weapon your combat delay was changed to 2 seconds. The reason this was implemented was to fix a bug where someone could significantly speed up a much slower weapon delay. This below will explain the fix that implemented this delay.
Quote:
Mini-update with small fixes Feb 26 1999 11:25AM
An exploit for getting slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed.
Here is the explanation of this patch on the old Markee's Dragon web site.
Quote:
Markee's Dragon - February 26, 1999
10) The disarm/arm exploit to get slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed. It will not be to your advantage to disarm/rearm a weapon. Please note one important omission!! There will be no current changes to Architect NPCs concerning better methods of buying back house deeds. Expect this to be added in the next major update though which is tentatively scheduled for around March 9th.
Reference: http://www.markeedragon.net/uomall/february.htm
After doing all this research it completely clicked like a light was just turned on in my mind. I remember when this bug was fixed. What you could do is swing with a very slow weapon and arm a very fast weapon to convert your delay to that of a slower weapon. The reason this works is because of the same mechanic that is apparent in the UO Demo. When you equip a weapon with an active swing delay your swing delay would convert to the weapon delay of the weapon that you just equipped. For example, if you hit with a halberd that made your delay 4.5s you could equip a katana converting your delay to a little over 1 second. If you equipped the halberd after waiting out the katana delay you would have a hally swing ready to go. All you had to do was hally, katana, hally katana, and repeat this entire process using the katana as a buffer to speed up the process by converting the delay. A dexer abusing this bug would obviously be devestating one can imagine.
What OSI did to fix this solution was to add a 2 second delay described above when you unequip a weapon. If you did the same process with the halberd and katana your delay would always be two seconds after unequipping the weapon to prevent converting the swing delay to something so awfully low. If you would try to equip a hally after unequipping before waiting out the two second delay it would simply reset your swing delay upon equipping.
When OSI implemented this change it gave birth to the insta hit refreshes that I've talked about so much. If you unequipped a weapon your delay would convert to 2 seconds, which is roughly a little over a 6th circle spell or two second circle spells casted back to back. This process makes much more sense than the theory involving it around the wrestling timer.
I hope all this makes sense to those who read it and fully understand how it actually worked.
I posted a follow up article that explains the process above based on a timeline of events while including some more extra information. Here is that article below.
Faust wrote:
Timeline:
I made the comment about weapons resetting upon equip with an active delay one post up. What this means is that when you equip a weapon there is what you would call an "equip delay". This delay would be the current weapon's delay at that very moment when you equip the weapon. This is the same delay that is discussed in the UOR publish that tweaked the long equip delay for archery.
Here is the patch notes for the equip delay in '97.
Quote:
12/16/97 - Combat
Equipping a weapon in combat will restart your weapon swing.
Now this mechanic is also present in the UO Demo and the last time I checked on OSI it was still very much alive there too. At least this is the case for all weapons besides bows for obvious reasons. There is no mention of the removal of the equip delay in any patch notes besides the one involving archery during the UOR publish. There is no reason this mechanic shouldn't be present since there is no evidence that suggests other wise.
Quote:
Renaissance Publish Apr 28 2000 10:28AM CST - Archery
The long equip delay for all bows will be tweaked.
All of this plays an eccentric part in the insta hit refresh.
We have officially confirmed that insta hit refreshes did occur from all the research above that falls in line with many UO vets memories. This means that there HAS to be someway to be able to convert a halberd's delay to around a sixth circle and two second circle spell delays. A sixth circle delay is 1.75s and two harms back to back is 2.0 seconds.
We previously could only come up with one logical way for this to occur. This was the wrestling timer. Since you unequipped and the delay would convert to a wrestling delay of 2.5s, since wrestling was way too fast at the suggested 2.0 seconds. This has obviously been the incorrect approach. Wrestling for one looks to be between 3-4 seconds on the UO Demo. If you take the speed that RunUO suggests for wrestling at 25 stamina that would make it exactly 3.5 seconds. There is absolutely no way this can be suggested to be the culprit for refreshing swings.
Now lets get back on topic shall we. If you take into consideration that the equip delay resets the weapon on equip this brings up a very obvious issue if you think about it. What happens when I swing with a heavy weapon like a hally or bow, and than proceed to equip a katana to shorten the delay and swap back to the heavy weapon after that delay has passed? The obvious thing would happen. You would be able to swing your weapon because your swing would be considered ready after the shorter delay elapsed.
Now came the solution to fix this problem.
Quote:
Patch February 1999
An exploit for getting slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed.
Markee's Dragon February 1999
10) The disarm/arm exploit to get slow weapons to hit faster has been fixed. It will not be to your advantage to disarm/rearm a weapon.
UO Stratics February 1999
Disarming Weapons: gives a 2 second delay. Ok, wonderful but this goes hand in hand with the hit being calculated at the beginning of each swing to cause further inbalances.
This is where the two second delay after disarming came into play and when insta hit refreshes were essentially born. The easy solution for this was to add an average delay after unequipping a weapon. Once you unequip that heavy weapon your delay would convert to 2 seconds. Also, make note that this delay ALWAYS happens unlike the equip delay. This means when you unequip a weapon you will have a 2 second delay no matter what. It doesn't matter if your swing delay is active or not.
So lets say you hit with a hally giving you a delay of 5 seconds(for ease of following). You unequip your hally converting your delay to 2 seconds, and you decide to equip a katana. This would convert your delay to that of a katana since you have an active delay. If you try the old bug where you wait out the katana it wouldn't be possible like it was previously. This is the case because when you unequip the katana a delay of 2 seconds is always added. So if you swapped to a hally before that delay elapsed than you will now have the hally's delay applied instead of the 2 seconds.
- Your "lame" 0 sources.
- Your neglection to understand the simple concept that wrestling producing inconsistancies after punching to counter a refresh.
- Your neglection to the evidence that wrestling wasn't 50 speed.
- Your alterative motive to get this changed even for the sake of inaccuracy is to make your favorite template a "dexer" to be much better than it really was.
All that needs to be said.
Thanks,
