Do you enjoy the PVP mechanics of UOSA

[Faust]

Kaivan has responded on the issue son.

[Tatanga]

I just created my character last night, so very new here.

But to be a a good pvp environment dont you guys think that there should be at least 4/5 VERY different competitive builds?

something like:
tank mage,
pure mage (no armor or weapons),
Fencer
Sword
Macer
Archer with real chanches in 1vs1 environment

[Guerrilla]

I just created my character last night, so very new here.

But to be a a good pvp environment dont you guys think that there should be at least 4/5 VERY different competitive builds?

something like:
tank mage,
pure mage (no armor or weapons),
Fencer
Sword
Macer
Archer with real chanches in 1vs1 environment

Welcome to UOSA hope you enjoy your stay, but as for the 4/5 very different competitive builds, you're about a day late and a dollar short on that bud.

[MatronDeWinter]

...First, I honestly do not believe that people were able to grasp the concept of something like this early enough to exploit it.

I don't think that is the case at all. People at the time were VERY serious about the mechanics. It would only take a day for the exact specifics of a new mechanic to be fully explained on some websites, particularly anything that could be considered an "exploit".

[SOLO-g]

Yes but there was no need to change the way you played to "learn" cycling hallys, when explo ebolt hally killed 99% of the people you would encounter. I dont think you are wrong, people were very quick to jump on after a patch to search for an exploit. To me it just seems most exploits were to get quick gold, or quick skill. PvP in era was slow and 6th circle when I played for the most part.

[nightshark]

Wasn't there an old japanese T2A PvP guide that detailed the hally cycling exploit in detail and it pretty much matched exactly with UOSA?

[Halbu]

I don't think that is the case at all. People at the time were VERY serious about the mechanics. It would only take a day for the exact specifics of a new mechanic to be fully explained on some websites, particularly anything that could be considered an "exploit".

Yep, back in 1999 me and other mages would sit outside Delucia figuring out new combos, mechanics ect. We were the first on LS to figure out how to double hally hit among other things. By practicing around we figured out how to fast-cast too.

Nobody knew how to hally cycle because it wasn't possible. Mage 1v1 was all about timing, spell choice, meditation and strategy back then and that's what made it so much better than dexer pvp. Right now most "mages" on UOSA hardly resemble mages in the way they pvp.

Never in 1999 did you see people complain about mini heal being powerful because it really isn't. Mini heal is the perfect counter to any type of dexer template, this includes 100dex w/ one hander as well as 35-40dex hally cyclers. Another thing you never saw in 1999 was so much emphasis put on dueling in small arena boxes, what ever happened to wrong roof and deceit? It's far more balanced and fun to 1v1 on the field, that way all playstyles have a chance and indeed the best pvper wins not just the one who gets lucky hally swings in a ring.

Yes but there was no need to change the way you played to "learn" cycling hallys, when explo ebolt hally killed 99% of the people you would encounter. I dont think you are wrong, people were very quick to jump on after a patch to search for an exploit. To me it just seems most exploits were to get quick gold, or quick skill. PvP in era was slow and 6th circle when I played for the most part.

Combos(not just explo+ebolt, there's others too) are still the best method of killing in 1v1, it's just that 98% of the mages on UOSA don't know how to make it work against 35dex mages that hallycycle the whole fight. It makes it tough to actually get a spell combo off if your timing isn't perfect, but it still works trust me.

[Faust]

The explosion, ebolt, and hally combo would not be possible without hally cycling. This is a well known fact based on the SetSwingCounter(0) function that is called on the OnDragEquip(Item item) function. This mechanic is probably documented just about more than any other during '99. Started in '97 when it was patched in and still exists today on production shards even. The mechanic resets your combat timer to the beginning anytime a piece of armor or weapon is dragged or equip.

Keep that well known fact into consideration.

How can you land the infamous exp, eb , hally combo when your swing delay is reset back to 0 after releasing the exp and casting the eb followed with equipping the hally that resets your timer back? That would be another 5 seconds to wait when explosion lands 3 seconds after target. There is a loss of 1.75 secs during the eb casting unless you equip cast but even in that situation there is still an additional wait of over 3 seconds... there should be NO arguement that there was some form of manipulation of the combat timer to alleviate at least half of the normal hally delay.

Wrestling is nearly exactly half that delay. We have sources suggesting the manipulation of the wrestling delay to alleviate the hally delay. There is obviously no doubt that cycling exists due to the combo discussed above.

Does this mean the current form of hally cycling is era accurate?

The answer to that is definitely not. The combat timer itself isn't even era accurate at the moment. This of course in itself tells you that the current form of hally cycling is not era accurate when the combat timer itself is not.

[Halbu]

The explosion, ebolt, and hally combo would not be possible without hally cycling. This is a well known fact based on the SetSwingCounter(0) function that is called on the OnDragEquip(Item item) function. This mechanic is probably documented just about more than any other during '99.

Okay. Rather it wasn't possibe to cycle the hally in the manner that is seen on UOSA today.

There's just no way me and my friends wouldn't have figured that out in 1999. We tried everything we could to make the hally swing faster, the closest thing to it was the double hally hit which got fixed pretty quickly.

[hectorc2w]

i agree there is no way we could cycle the hally like that in 99. I used to pvp daily back then and had an amazing 25 average ping to chesapeake.

[Faust]

The rule of thumb that players went by on Baja was to use a sixth circle spell like an ebolt or two consecutive harms followed up with a hally swing. This could be done over and over for a swing.

Weapon cycling on here is not era accurate and there are two noticable reasons.

- Swings advance during movemeny.
- Combat swings permanently hold.

The combat timer code is simply not era accurate.

Again, if a hally timer is not able to be cut in half there would be no physical possibly to land and exp, ebolt, and hally combo. Explosion damage delay is 3 seconds long and an ebolt cast time is 1.75 seconds long. These time frames are a 100% accurate along with a 19 ticks or 4.75 seconds long. Releasing the explosion and equipping a hally during or after the ebolt triggers the equip delay of 5 second hally timer. This obviously means there has to be a way to half the timer.

[hectorc2w]

why was it changed if its not era accurate? I thought changes would only go in if we'r 100% sure its the right way

[nightshark]

I just hope when "combat swings do not hold" goes in it gets decent testing. Last time that was on test center it was completely unplayable (and was pulled/never patched into the shard). It was almost impossible for a mage to land any kind of swing with the halberd.

[Matty]

I just hope when "combat swings do not hold" goes in it gets decent testing. Last time that was on test center it was completely unplayable (and was pulled/never patched into the shard). It was almost impossible for a mage to land any kind of swing with the halberd.

are the admins trying to do away with held swings?

[Faust]

why was it changed if its not era accurate? I thought changes would only go in if we'r 100% sure its the right way

Why what was changed?

are the admins trying to do away with held swings?

Kaivan and Derrick both have stated that the intended mechanics for the combat timer are bugged despite this being mentioned over two years ago.



The story behind the combat timer here is a complicated situation. The original combat timer from the UO Demo is pre-t2a. This code can only be used for a foundation for developing the actual t2a combat timer that is slightly different. There are specific features that are known to exist and be implemented after the pre-t2a combat timer.

These features are...

- Damage being calculated at the beginning of your swing.
- Prep delay that prevents you from swinging after equipping a weapon.
- Stamina based swing delay instead of Dex based.
- Swings that do not hold after the delay elapses and a combat timer that only advances when you do not move.

The last feature does not mean the combat timer only moves when you stand still. There are two functions in the original code that determines a swing. The timer still continues to tick forward for a swing but the portion of the code that determines when you swing can only advance when you stand still for one tick (0.25s).

There were four key figures(Batlin, Kaivan, Derrick, and me) that worked on trying to take the original timer and reconstruct it into a t2a based algorithm. Batlin was the person that decompiled the original timer from the demo into a C based algorithm. I worked with on defining specifics that happens in the code and reconstructed it into a more modern C# version of the code. Kaivan and me tried our best to develop a t2a reconstruction using the code but pretty much came up empty. Derrick eventually coded a version that he thought would work best for the shard that was the closest he could get to the original code. We had that reconstructed combat timer for several months until the movement advancement disappeared and swings being held was possible again. This was said to be a bug by Derrick a long time ago that was never fixed. Kavian reconfirmed this statement on another recent thread about a week ago.

That is pretty much the story behind the combat timer here.