Shard Population nemesis; Vega

[chumbucket]

The relevant principle isn't the fallacious "if you can do it, then it is OK" but rather the perfectly respectable "if it is permitted by the people who set the rules and is otherwise a normal part of gameplay" then it is OK. Punching people isn't OK because it is possible. Punching people in a boxing match is OK because that is a part of boxing.

[GuardianKnight]

*punches chumbucket*

I TOLD HIM I WAS BOXING AHEAD OF TIME! He said something before then, but I couldn't hear it.

[chumbucket]

*punches chumbucket*

I TOLD HIM I WAS BOXING AHEAD OF TIME! He said something before then, but I couldn't hear it.

Same complaint applies to stealing, PKing, and any other adverse activity within the bounds of the game.

[inkognito]

By the way this wasn't even a scam. It was stolen out of the backpack by the use of the 'stealing' skill.
I don't pretend to know the original vision for this game and what designers had in mind, but a game in which it allows you to walk in someone's house and gank their things, raise a skill called 'stealing' and gank people's things, kill others and gank their things...we are arguing that telling someone you will give perty shinnies for their things and then not doing so goes against all what the game is?

[Li Meiyang]

The relevant principle isn't the fallacious "if you can do it, then it is OK" but rather the perfectly respectable "if it is permitted by the people who set the rules and is otherwise a normal part of gameplay" then it is OK. Punching people isn't OK because it is possible. Punching people in a boxing match is OK because that is a part of boxing.

And back to square one AGAIN. When all else fails, there's always repetition.

Scamming is not permitted or condoned, that's why I alerted everyone to the forum link.

It wasn't part of the vision of the game, it was a huge problem for OSI in era because it drove players away. And they banned people for it.

It's also against the rules *here*.

viewtopic.php?f=102&t=52155

Anyone who's been scammed please fill out a Scam Report according to the the above link.

And please make the scammer publicly known here on the forum, as a service to others.

[chumbucket]

The relevant principle isn't the fallacious "if you can do it, then it is OK" but rather the perfectly respectable "if it is permitted by the people who set the rules and is otherwise a normal part of gameplay" then it is OK. Punching people isn't OK because it is possible. Punching people in a boxing match is OK because that is a part of boxing.

And back to square one AGAIN. When all else fails, there's always repetition.

Scamming is not permitted or condoned, that's why I alerted everyone to the forum link.

It wasn't part of the vision of the game, it was a huge problem for OSI in era because it drove players away. And they banned people for it.

It's also against the rules *here*.

viewtopic.php?f=102&t=52155

Anyone who's been scammed please fill out a Scam Report according to the the above link.

And please make the scammer publicly known here on the forum, as a service to others.

What's against the rules here, and a good rule it is, is scamming using official UOSA forums or UOSA sponsored IRC rooms. If a sucker and his gold are parted in game, that is permitted by shard rules.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Here are a few points I would like to make.

If you are going to make a guild for players totally New to the game you need to warn them of all dangers beforehand. If anyone wishes to engage these players in offense in any manner, if possible they should tab their scrolls to see how long they have been around and use proper conscious when deciding course of action.

A new player who is excited about finally getting a new house or regs to macro after spending considerable amount of time collecting silver on a festive holiday is the last person I would want to scam. PKs, overwhelming spawn, and a whole lot of running around exploring makes his rewards much deserved.

Poor attitude in game will result in deliberate targeting in game. There was made mention of very poor gamemanship on the victim. True or not but if you are in troubled waters make sure it is not you rocking the boat.

Names that come up in forums often will have certain stereotypes of themselves, sometimes a persona can imitate them in real life, or just in game, or some have a helpful persona here but in game are dastardly at best. I say most here are Chaotic Neutral, they will save your life one moment and loot you dry the next. Almost all of us are Anarchists in game. Trust no one unless it is earned. I have done most of my dealings with cA members believe it or not and trust them more then others as far as pixels are concerned, but on the field or outside of business I know I am fair game if for some reason I happen to be in the right place and right time for them.

I myself got initiated in by stumbling through the game. I always recount that I got PKed 12 times over and over trying to collect bone armor because all my store bought armor kept getting looted in Vesper. I never played UO before here, I knew nothing. I would often argue against some vets because there were times I thought they were trying to mislead people into positions of making fun of them as some of their ways of doing things were unorthodox.

Search the forums. There is a lot of trial and error. There is a lot of brainstorming. Don't believe anything until you try it. Make sure to try it. See what is trying to be accomplished and ask yourself how it can be done better. Many people here have taken this ancient game as far as games go and took it to levels not ever dreamed of and I think it can go even further.

I am split about the NEW guild. On one hand we dont need spoiled brats who think they have an invulnerable title above their head, on the other some people really need help as this is a very complex game.

Vega could have weeded out someone who did not belong here, or he could have been a douche. I wasnt there and I made the mistake of passing judgement before knowing all the facts and I still don't.

If you are NEW dont worry about anything, there is much to be had here if you are willing to lose some. Death is part of the game, losing what you have is part of the game. Learn to let go and have fun. Never take it seriously...but be intent on having fun. There will always be another opportunity for fame and fortune....always. Shed your tear, wipe your face, get even....even if it takes a thousand defeats that one victory is well worth it.

[Li Meiyang]

DP

[Li Meiyang]

Murder and theft *are* accounted for in the system and carry penalties. Scamming is scott-free for the most part, not by design, but because there is no way to insert a code that deters lying and cheating.

Scamming is also far more damaging than thieving or Pking. Of course you always run the risk of getting your power sword swiped at Brit Bank, or getting PKed while out hunting. And sure it's a hassle and those guys are dicks, but you can always reequip and get back into your normal playstyle in a short time. Scams, however, take away things like entire houses that the player spent weeks of play to acquire. Rather than ruining someone's hour, they ruin their entire UO experience. Then they want to come on the forums and brag about how they drove off another newb, as though there is anything redeemable about gaining people's trust and betraying it. There isn't.

Oh, and while I'm laying this all out, here is the conflation of the "blame the victim" tact: Yes, people should learn to be wary of scammers, but the sophist uses this point to justify his misdeeds because they teach this lesson. (And of course to give himself a pass) They will flip logic backwards upside and sideways to make what everyone knows is wrong seem right.

[Menkaure]

This is crazy, listen, if you get scammed because you sold something without posting it on the forums, its your own damn fault. If your going to cry about it, go play OSI UO and stand in trammel.
If your going to finally learn from it, shut up about it and remember to post on the forums for anything you sell/buy and record the transaction.

[Elk Eater]

[MatronDeWinter]

^

[inkognito]

+1

[chumbucket]

Scamming is also far more damaging than thieving or Pking.

Says you: viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6206

Not to mention that the biggest scores are usually house break-ins.

It's a part of the game, and there isn't much use complaining. If you sign up for UO with this set of rules, it's going to happen. Of course, people can do it in ways that make them a jackass. That you are permitted to do something does show you should, but it does show you are allowed and no one can try to stop except through otherwise rule condoned methods, e.g., home security, spreading the word, and so on.

Tut-tutting here that you don't like a gameplay style accepted by the people who run the game is a waste of time.

New players need to be warned a thousand times about all the ways they can be stolen from, scammed, and killed. And it is a bit of jackass move to specifically target new players in light of the fact that they are new. But, ultimately, they need to steel themselves, be prepared, and learn from their mistakes--just everyone who ever played in era and who has played here the past five+ years.

[Kadull]

Your shard started with a large population from the RunUO community, because of what ever hype. The free shard community is shrinking.

Again, if you do not advertise outside of the freeshard/runUO/Topshard listings, the only direction your population is going to go is: down.

Again, there is no point in waving the finger around and which aspect of the game might be theoretically causing the decline, because there will always *be* a decline if you don't market. You currently have a one way revolving door. Players are leaving faster than they're coming. You need to worry more about bringing more players *in* rather than trying to retain everyone. *You are never going to retain everyone. And you are obviously not going to retain enough players to sustain your current playerbase under the current marketing plans, because that is what is already happening. If it is broke, you need to fix it. start marketing outside of the free UO community and top shard sites.*

Again, if you don't want your community to shrink, you have to donate real money, to real advertising.

Again, the only thing you know for sure, the only thing you can really say about your population without just guessing off the top of your head, is that you are losing players because more players are leaving than they are coming.

1: Nobody is going to player UO, or one shard for ever. There will also be players leaving.

2: You launched with a large population by building a lot of hype in the RunUO community, and the top shard sites... In other words you already milked that cow. Move on to the next one: facebook, twitter, google.

Stupid debates about scamming are just that, stupid. And I mean stupid in the most genuine definition of the word. Build a separate donation pool specifically for marketing on social networking sites (you can gear your ads specifically to gamers that way) and google targeted ads, and run some sort of other community driven marketing campaign.

[/end rant]