UOSA Tournament System

[[Uhh] Eo]

If the argument is it gives people the ability to leave the regular world, that is kinda BS since we can all do that already. No new abilities there.

I am sure that the goal of T2A era accuracy was initially intoduced to remove that general problem with freeshards where the game is constantly changing and there is no stability. That sort of thing makes you think 'Well why should I play here, my hard work will be ruined tomorrow'.

That is not a risk we have with UOSA, events aren't going to CHANGE the world. Your newly GM'd dexer isn't going to be nerfed by next weeks patch here.

Events happen outside of the regular world and even then, they are T2a mechanic games.

I have always loved UO for this era, I played from 1997 to 2000 on OSI and then never really enjoyed any free shards I tried until I found UOSA 12 years later. I love t2a and have always supported the era accuracy goals of the shard. I also want nothing more than for this shard to succeed and be as great as it can be.

If I am seeming entitled, please understand I am not trying to be demanding, I am trying to be convincing - I have stated many times that the GM's here are legendary for providing what they do. If you guys tell us you just don't have the ability or time to do it, that's fine. But if you're telling us that its for era accuracy reasons, then I'm being argumentative because I feel that is wrong and I am trying to convince you otherwise.

[Menkaure]

Are you guys blind, or just mildly retarded? I really don't want to turn this into trash talking, but for starters, Kaivan called no one assholes, but you are certainly sounding entitled.

No, the shard will not evolve. That is practically stated in the mission statement. The intention here has nothing to do with improving UO or providing anything to the players aside from AS ACCURATE A REPLICA OF THE CHOSEN ERA AS POSSIBLE!

Yes, PvP events were fun. Monster bash events were fun too. Same with Survival games (barding), etc. Aside from fun, they were also one very very MAJOR thing......NEA.
Stomping your foot on the ground saying 'but but but', will never change the mission statement.

You want ot change the mission statement? Offer Derrick so much money for the shard that he cannot refuse it, and change the mission statement to whatever the hell you want.

Blaise just because people are fighting for what they believe in doesnt mean they are stomping their foot going "but, but, but."
Threads are for discussions and arguments. That's what we are having.

[Kaivan]

No one is asking for a daily silver machine to be brought back. However, me and the other entitled assholes (according to Kaivan), think the server could benefit from a weekly tournament tracked on myuosa. No one cares if we have to use our own resources AND get no prizes. It's consistency and tracking that we want... using a system that is already half in place.

You want extra mechanics to be put into place to support your play style over that of others. You want a system that allows you to duel without interruption, and you want a system that can effectively set up these duels without having to put in the effort. Since nothing even remotely like this was available during the era, you're asking for us to make an exception in mechanics for you, which by definition is entitlement. You feel that you are entitled to your fun over the main objectives of the server.

If you'd have to put in a weekly PvM automated event to make is fair... go ahead and do that... just make players use up their pet/regs/time and give them nothing for it but a rating for number of monsters killed or w/e... we wouldn't mind that one bit.

So your solution to one glaring in accuracy really is to add in another inaccuracy? This is the stuff of an indefensible position where you're just saying that we need to make these exceptions because you say so, and you have no good reason to justify it within the context of the server goals.

But, not only that, you're still placing these other things on a lower pedestal. For those who would be interested in dueling, the automated system would exist to support the end goal of a duel which is an environment where even groups test their skill against each other without any outside interference, for the fun of dueling. For those who were interested in PvM, the theoretical automated event would exist to support the end goal of PvM, which is to acquire gold, items, and resources. Yet, your proposed system would remove the end results of that goal. Of course, a fair application where the PvM event would include the desired rewards of PvM is clearly something you don't want, which proves the point that others see it as silly to hand an event catered to the whims of a particular play style that they don't share.

In fact that'd be a great idea... but they didn't have that on osi and it doesn't help you connect to the server.

They also didn't have an automated dueling system on OSI servers. Also, PvM combat does help connect players to the server and each other. Your statement belittles other play styles by pretending that the only worthwhile play style is the PvP style, and that it should be preferentially treated as such.

If the argument is it gives people the ability to leave the regular world, that is kinda BS since we can all do that already. No new abilities there.

In what way can you leave the world short of logging out?

[Blaise]

That's just what it sounds like. Mature discussions where people accept what is being said and don't just but but but it until they are blue in the face, with no NEW argument, is footstomping child-mad.

Eo, you are way off base. In fact, they nerf shit all the time for accuracy. See also: Archery now sucks and once did not, but is NEA. Katana got patched to actually be faster than a kryss or whatever ridiculous change that was, etc. There have been countless things that do in fact get "nerfed by next weeks patch here".


How's that reagent shopping going for new players? The argument that anything should change here to suit players, is moot. Please reference the statements Derrick made in that 5 year old thread you An Corp'd.

[Abyz]

Don't try to make it seem like I am belittling PvM. PvM is totally fine with me, and I even engage in it myself. It is as viable a play style as any. I celebrate the entire catalog of activities in uo. You seem to be saying the Pvmers dont PvM for the fun of it! You seem to be saying they only do it to grind out gold resources, and items. Why would you assume that?

I don't care what kind of cool events could be thrown into the world, it doesn't have to be pvp. All I know is that there was a cool system in place at one time, that MANY people (not just myself despite you trying to single me out) enjoyed. I get what you are saying, but you don't seem to get what I am saying. We do not want to change mechanics. We do not want any special way to get rewards. We simply want a weekly, rewardless, use our own resources, tracked tournament of some sort. If not being "in the world" for an hr a week just slaps your precious NEA in the face SO HARD, so be it... Doesn't change the fact that it's dumb.

[montier]

Being that I wasn't here when these events went on.. and I am new.. I don't know what kind of probelms you guys had with each other in the past..

All three of you (Kavian, Blaise, Abyz) are acting like pissy little children..

I don't PVP, and likely won't ever PVP.. I have no skin in this argument.
I think there is an argument that can be made for automated events..

1) GM Hosted Events are Era Accurate. It is too much to for us to ask GMs to do regular events.. This is a free shard.
2) Player modifications Are Era Accurate.. Things Such as the $$$ Tent, Bloodrock URK Fort. Player Town addons
3) Automated Events could be the best possible approximation of 1)
4) You can't tell me that $$$ Tent, Bloodrock fort do not enhance a particular play style. $$$ Tent Caters to merchants, Bloodrock count free zone favors Role playing orcs..

Stop acting like pissy little kids and take a step back and try to look at all the facts...

[Kaivan]

Being that I wasn't here when these events went on.. and I am new.. I don't know what kind of probelms you guys had with each other in the past..

All three of you (Kavian, Blaise, Abyz) are acting like pissy little children..

I don't PVP, and likely won't ever PVP.. I have no skin in this argument.
I think there is an argument that can be made for automated events..

1) GM Hosted Events are Era Accurate. It is too much to for us to ask GMs to do regular events.. This is a free shard.
2) Player modifications Are Era Accurate.. Things Such as the $$$ Tent, Bloodrock URK Fort. Player Town addons
3) Automated Events could be the best possible approximation of 1)
4) You can't tell me that $$$ Tent, Bloodrock fort do not enhance a particular play style. $$$ Tent Caters to merchants, Bloodrock count free zone favors Role playing orcs..

Stop acting like pissy little kids and take a step back and try to look at all the facts...

I recognize that you are a new player, and that you don't know much about the discussion. Given that, I'll fill you in on what players want when they ask for automated events such as X vs X tournaments, CTF, and other PvP style events. They want the following:

• A regularly scheduled and automated system that begins these events at a specific day and time.
  A moongate that teleports you to a sign up/spectator area that has the following properties:
  • No attacking.
  • No stealing.
  • No damaging players through any proxy means such as explosion potions.
• With respect to the X vs X tournaments, a system that does the following:
  • Automatically pairs players up.
  • Teleports them, from whatever location they are at, into a pre-arranged dueling arena.
  • Protects duelists from any outside interference by making them invulnerable to anyone outside of the arena.
  • Safely delivers these players back out of the dueling arena to the spectator/sign up area.
  • A scoring system that ranks player statistics for participants.
• With respect to the other events:
  • Teleports participants into an area of the map that is completely separated from anyone who isn't participating in the event, fully protecting them from outside interference.

These properties, and probably others, is what is being referred to when players talk about automated events. These systems fall so far outside of mechanical accuracy, that to accept them would be to accept a gross exception to the goals of the server in order to appease a particular group of players.

Beyond that, the fact that we have modifications to the world in the form of decorations for buildings and towns is exactly in line with the concept of blessed housing on OSI servers, although we handle the specifics of it differently. Additionally, with respect to the modifications for RP environments such as the Bloodrock fort, they were specifically done to promote an RP group, which is in-line with OSI policy, where RP groups were provided additional benefits to help these groups fill their role as replacements for regular creatures (see this thread for a discussion on the topic). This does not mean that we should generally favor an entire group of players simply because they want it to happen, which is exactly what is being proposed here.

Finally, regarding the events on OSI servers. Aside from the fact that these events were very rare (on the order of once a month on a very active server), these events were typically town invasions, or other unusual events within the world (special spawns or the extremely rare large seer quest such as the 7 deadly sins quest on Great Lakes), not PvP tournaments, which is what the type of automated events that are being pushed for in this thread.

[Ulfrigg]

These properties, and probably others, is what is being referred to when players talk about automated events. These systems fall so far outside of mechanical accuracy, that to accept them would be to accept a gross exception to the goals of the server in order to appease a particular group of players.

So because they are run buy a computer they are not accurate? So in other Words you need to find out exatly what mobs etc that spawned on the events to make it accurate.

Like the red orcs that spawned after the events was accurate? And the corpses that are still on the ground? That all happend after the end of the automatic events.

If the events have to be 100% accurate its just stupid..

[Kaivan]

You mean specially spawned creatures and decorations designed to facilitate the RP environment? I suspect that you missed the forest for the trees, and ignored the entire list of things that players want the automated events to do. Those properties are the problem, and you took what I said out of context and missed that entire point.

[corruption42]

...you took what I said out of context and missed that entire point.

That seems to be the modus operandi around here. I really respect you and Derrick's level of tolerance and strong desire for meaningful discourse; I wish you got it in return more often.

[Ulfrigg]

Red orcs and automated events are bouth mechanics so i dont see why one is ok while the other one isnt?

[Kaivan]

Red orcs and automated events are bouth mechanics so i dont see why one is ok while the other one isnt?

I addressed your point before you even made it in my post when I said the following:

Beyond that, the fact that we have modifications to the world in the form of decorations for buildings and towns is exactly in line with the concept of blessed housing on OSI servers, although we handle the specifics of it differently. Additionally, with respect to the modifications for RP environments such as the Bloodrock fort, they were specifically done to promote an RP group, which is in-line with OSI policy, where RP groups were provided additional benefits to help these groups fill their role as replacements for regular creatures (see this thread for a discussion on the topic). This does not mean that we should generally favor an entire group of players simply because they want it to happen, which is exactly what is being proposed here.

There is a major difference between the two, and I make it very clear as to why.

[Ulfrigg]

So to say, automated in trammel is the key Word? Its not like you cant do automated events in the feluccia World thou.

[corruption42]

So to say, automated in trammel is the key Word? Its not like you cant do automated events in the feluccia World thou.

Its not that complicated to understand what he's saying. If its an automated event, regardless of the event -- that includes the mechanics of the event, where it takes place, what type of event it is -- then it doesn't fit in line with the goals that Derrick has set forth. Automation constitutes a permanent change to the game mechanics in their view. Eliminate automation, and taking it out of the world at large, and there may be something that can be discussed.

Edit: In this sense, automation means how and when the event is initiated. The discussion should be about what can fit in with the structure of the world mechanics, for somewhat rare events -- not what can be done to give us something automated and occurring daily/weekly/etc.

[Kaivan]

So to say, automated in trammel is the key Word? Its not like you cant do automated events in the feluccia World thou.

Its not that complicated to understand what he's saying. If its an automated event, regardless of the event -- that includes the mechanics of the event, where it takes place, what type of event it is -- then it doesn't fit in line with the goals that Derrick has set forth. Automation constitutes a permanent change to the game mechanics in their view. Eliminate automation, and taking it out of the world at large, and there may be something that can be discussed.

This pretty much covers most of what we are concerned with.