Please don't remove guild chat, here's why.

[BlackFoot]

Lets try to summarize the pros/cons pulled from the thread tell me which I miss

Pro facts

- era accurate mechanic
- limiting some macro behaviour

Pro Opinions

- will increase need for in game player interaction
- will increase use of in game chat
- will cause the grouping of players to central locations to communicate (guild houses. etc)
- people will reach to irc and forums increasing their involvement in the UOSA community

Con facts

- Players will no longer be able to instantly communicate with all online guild mates in their game window without taking extra steps

Con Opinions

- Guilds that rely on guild chat will be at a disadvantage to those that dont
- Guilds will reach out to less convenient methods of communication vent, irc, icq, forums that may be more difficult for some
- In game chat is less convenient than guild chat
- Instant communication across the screen of guild mates builds community which will now need to be done with a different program
- People will communicate outside of the game


After reading back through 6 pages really only a few points were made for either side. Although repeated many times.

[rouss]

UOR UOR UOR UOR

Derrick is making a replica of T2A. Patch after patch we see changes that took place during actual T2A era.

What's so UOR about Second Age I wonder? Please explain

[MatronDeWinter]

I hate to clutter the topic, but Matron and her pack of "bots" are probably the most obvious exploiters of this system. They aren't pvpers, they are not capable of pvping without looping Razor macros that exploit UO:R systems. Heshe really only hurts your point by coming to this topic.

If you logged in and played the game, you would know that there is absolutely zero "botting" going on in cA.

Blackfoot has the right idea listing out the Pro/Con's, but I think you can toss peoples normative opinions out of the scale.

[Astinus]

I've never understood the sacred creed of "era accuracy" which is accepted as gospel for an arbitrary set of things, though readily dismissed in other contexts (daily events, silver, etc.). It is like, in those arbitrary set of things, no one is allowed to have an original thought that was not firmly established in 1999. Why can't those things be improved upon, especially since this shard has accepted arguable improvements in other contexts?

We all agree, by playing here, that we enjoy T2A-era gameplay, which should not be significantly altered. But minor improvements that do not substantially impact the shard (I would include guild/party chat under this definition) should not be summarily dismissed. The only reason era accuracy is a value worth having is because the era, overall, was good. A good, quality game is the real value here, not a complete adherence to last decade (which this shard doesn't even follow to begin with).

If era accuracy is the end-all of justifications, then we should quickly eliminate any daily events, legality of unattended macroing, Razor, multiclienting, and probably other things. But they're not, and I don't think they should just for the sake of era accuracy, which is NOT the end all of justifications. A better game is more important than a mirror image of 1999.

One reason to get rid of guild chat is how it can be used for automated commands. I have no idea how prevalent that is, but if it is at all then that is certainly a valid reason to consider its removal (or at least changing the mechanics of it in-game). Trying to make people group together in-game is also a valid reason. In short, trying to make the game better is a valid reason. Relying solely on the era accuracy excuse without any other reasoning, as if that's supposed to just be accepted as a value in-and-of-itself, is pointless. If you want a mirror image, then make a mirror image (which this shard is not); otherwise, why shouldn't the focus be on making a superior game?

I, personally, prefer having guild chat. I think it's more convenient and is not used as an excuse not to collaborate (and in fact makes guild collaborating easier) -- overall, it's a minor improvement over the 1999-era that does not actually alter gameplay. I think the game is better with it, though admittedly only slightly.

[Psilo]

I've never understood the sacred creed of "era accuracy" which is accepted as gospel for an arbitrary set of things, though readily dismissed in other contexts (daily events, silver, etc.). It is like, in those arbitrary set of things, no one is allowed to have an original thought that was not firmly established in 1999. Why can't those things be improved upon, especially since this shard has accepted arguable improvements in other contexts?

We all agree, by playing here, that we enjoy T2A-era gameplay, which should not be significantly altered. But minor improvements that do not substantially impact the shard (I would include guild/party chat under this definition) should not be summarily dismissed. The only reason era accuracy is a value worth having is because the era, overall, was good. A good, quality game is the real value here, not a complete adherence to last decade (which this shard doesn't even follow to begin with).

If era accuracy is the end-all of justifications, then we should quickly eliminate any daily events, legality of unattended macroing, Razor, multiclienting, and probably other things. But they're not, and I don't think they should just for the sake of era accuracy, which is NOT the end all of justifications. A better game is more important than a mirror image of 1999.

One reason to get rid of guild chat is how it can be used for automated commands. I have no idea how prevalent that is, but if it is at all then that is certainly a valid reason to consider its removal (or at least changing the mechanics of it in-game). Trying to make people group together in-game is also a valid reason. In short, trying to make the game better is a valid reason. Relying solely on the era accuracy excuse without any other reasoning, as if that's supposed to just be accepted as a value in-and-of-itself, is pointless. If you want a mirror image, then make a mirror image (which this shard is not); otherwise, why shouldn't the focus be on making a superior game?

I, personally, prefer having guild chat. I think it's more convenient and is not used as an excuse not to collaborate (and in fact makes guild collaborating easier) -- overall, it's a minor improvement over the 1999-era that does not actually alter gameplay. I think the game is better with it, though admittedly only slightly.

Great post.

[BlackFoot]

Pointing to one thing and saying 'because I think this is inaccurate its ok for us to make this inaccurate' Is not in any way a valid argument.

[marmalade]

Relying solely on the era accuracy excuse without any other reasoning, as if that's supposed to just be accepted as a value in-and-of-itself, is pointless. If you want a mirror image, then make a mirror image (which this shard is not); otherwise, why shouldn't the focus be on making a superior game?

blackfoot, there is a difference between saying "this is inaccurate, so leave this other inaccurate system in" and "this is inaccurate, and so is this so remove them both".

this change is not going to affect me in the slightest, but if theyre going to remove something as small (but useful) as guildchat, then i demand immediate removal of the HUGELY inaccurate automated events system.

[BlackFoot]

If people want to make a thread about the validity of events on the server than make a thread about it. It seems the absoulte only excuse people have for guild chat is they keep pointing at events as if that is a real argument.

Its like following a bunch of politicians that keep pointing at 9/11 no matter what they are talking about lol

[marmalade]

there have already been plenty of posts about removing automated events. i don't need to repeat what has already been said 1000 times.

events are constantly brought up because of the number of people citing ERA ACCURACY as an argument (which ofc is fine). however, if they're going to reply with NEA to every post, and if the shards aim is to replicate the era to a tee, then why haven't events been removed yet? surely removing something as huge as automated events should have a higher priority towards replicating the era than guildchat, which the vast majority of players on this shard actually find useful.

[Astinus]

Pointing to one thing and saying 'because I think this is inaccurate its ok for us to make this inaccurate' Is not in any way a valid argument.

I agree with you, but that's only true if you accept that "we should remove it, just because it's not era accurate" is not a valid argument to begin with. The focus should be on what's good (or not) for the game.

[BlackFoot]

There is a fundamental difference between accurate core mechanics and replicating a uo experience.

Each mechanic thread needs to be debated on its own merits. Not on the merits of other game aspects. The debate on this particular game mechanic should be decided on evidence and patch notes, not opinion or mob mentality.

[Psilo]

Some people like my friend have to play full screen due to his computer screwing up if he doesn't. And what about other people that play full screen because they like it better.

Guild Chat is a great feature, it is certainly something that should be in the Ultima Online of 2010. Without it the game is going to be significantly less fun.

I don't care if we used ICQ in 1999. The game is no longer full of the life it had in 1999 obviously. You can't sit there entertained by the 100's of people in Brittain while waiting on your guild mates to get there after icqing them. What happens in 2010 is we're going to open IRC and get distracted by the off-topic nonsense and then get irritated by the game cause we have no guild chat to send a quick message. IRC is an eye-sore btw, it really does hurt my eyes no matter what color I make it.

We need to be able to talk to the people we play with if we're far away crafting or mining alone, SO WHAT? We also need to be able to send a quick message to "meet here". Guild Chat doesn't take away from the atmosphere or player interaction. ICQ, Ventrilo and IRC are what does that, cause you gotta open a program and you hear off-topic nonsense. Let's move forward and immerse ourselves, not take away from the RPG aspect of UO. You play a Brittanian, not some dude sitting at a computer flipping through blocky IRC text.

You're telling me that hassling players by removing Guild chat and continuing to hassle them with tournament messages about "who won 1v1", "CTF IS STARTING NOW GOTO THE RED MOONGATE LOL" While we're at it let's make it so the only way to get era accurate items like clothing bless deeds, neon hair dye and ranger armor is by playing INACCURATE events full of INACCURATE mechanics and rules. lol!

Some people only play this game for the community, many UOSA players don't care about material goods, eye candy or what Hemperor has to say in IRC.

Please keep Guild Chat in for progress of UOSA's community.

[Pro]

rather than write a huge post heres what i think in a simple sentence without loads of EDIT


Keep guild chat til theres more people groups are too small for it to be removed atm.

[DarkWing]

rather than write a huge post heres what i think in a simple sentence without loads of EDIT


Keep guild chat til theres more people groups are too small for it to be removed atm.

does Size really matter?

[Pro]

yes


source: your mother