Swing on the run (dexing)

[Matty]

"Losing a melee battle to an armorless mage after I've survived the intial mana dump just isn't right."

this is the thing that gets me. it wasn't at all like this. here they can even stay onscreen or trot (you won't swing, they gain mana) and they'll kill you. maybe it isn't even SOTR completely but i urge the guys in charge to look at trotting (avoiding swings by walking).

but i think what you described has as much, if not more, to do with miniheal.

[Mens Rea]

Anyone who was in T2A will remember that even mages would carry around a katana because it was a viable weapon to use in a duel for a mage.

The katana is not a viable weapon for a mage to use in a duel at the moment - NEA.

[Panthor the Hated]

No changes from the current system without evidence that suggests a specific change in mechanics. Sadly Faust wins by default on this so let it go.

I don't care either way, dexers are plenty effective as-is.

The viability of a specific tactic does not mean mechanics are or are not accurate. It used to be a lot easier to steal from people on OSI because there were just so many idiots wandering around. Its harder here but the stealing system is probably one of the closest to accurate as far as I can tell.

Also people still do use katanas here and they can be effective in long fights between tanks that are at a similar skill level and thus both run out of mana without securing a kill. The katana is a good way to continue to do dmg and force heals as well as occasionally disrupting while waiting for mana to return. Theres just no need for the 2-4 people who win each tourny to use them because most of the others are substantially worse at UO.

End of ramble.

[Ronk]

Also, for those interested, I have spoken with Derrick and he is currently reviewing the swing code. I'll probably hear back from him on what the current mechanics are, and we will put something up on test if we find that something needs to be revised.

Just figured id give this thread a bump and see if Derrick has discovered anything yet? A whole slew of dexxers are waiting on the edge of their seats for the real T2A dexxing mechanics and the concept of the 'non-skill dex monkey' to be restored.

[Matty]

No changes from the current system without evidence that suggests a specific change in mechanics. Sadly Faust wins by default on this so let it go.

I don't care either way, dexers are plenty effective as-is.

The viability of a specific tactic does not mean mechanics are or are not accurate. It used to be a lot easier to steal from people on OSI because there were just so many idiots wandering around. Its harder here but the stealing system is probably one of the closest to accurate as far as I can tell.

Also people still do use katanas here and they can be effective in long fights between tanks that are at a similar skill level and thus both run out of mana without securing a kill. The katana is a good way to continue to do dmg and force heals as well as occasionally disrupting while waiting for mana to return. Theres just no need for the 2-4 people who win each tourny to use them because most of the others are substantially worse at UO.

End of ramble.

nobody's arguing about stealing. i have a thief and think it works great. log in sometime on your dexer and i'll show you how it's broken. you will see that trotting to avoid blows is bugged.

[ClowN]

any update on this yet?

[Matty]

any update on this yet?

i don't think yet but K told us he's looking into it earlier in the thread.

my stance on this subject has changed a little since i started this thread. that said, i'm going to weigh in when i have time but i again urge the programmers to take a look into this trotting issue.

also: does anyone know exactly for how long one has to stop for their swing timer to recharge? i feel sometimes i come to a complete stop for the right amount of time, but then i'll run up to my target and won't swing. it seems somewhat inconsistent.

[Roser]

0.25 - 0.49 seconds.

Depending on when you stop in regards to the global tick timer. If you stop .10 second short of the tick timer, then it will be .35 second, if you stop .15 second short, then it will be .40 etc...

This is a theory based on the fact that I notice an inconsistency in the amount of time you must stop for, although it is a very small amount of time and difficult to gauge.

[Derrick]

Just figured id give this thread a bump and see if Derrick has discovered anything yet? A whole slew of dexxers are waiting on the edge of their seats for the real T2A dexxing mechanics and the concept of the 'non-skill dex monkey' to be restored.

There are enough valid doubts about the interpretations upon which some of the combat system is based to justify a new look at the system from the ground up.

We have been working on a reassessment of the combat system, it's not nearly done and there's really no timeframe for when it might be implemented, although we we likely do some more testing soon.

As most are probably aware, I've had a relatively busy summer. I hope that things to slow down a bit for me soon so that I may find more time for development. We feel that currently the server is very stable both in terms of actual server stability, and the game mechanics, and do not relish making any big changes to combat or any other systems; but these questions are well deserving of attention, and they shall have it.

[Mens Rea]

Double hit is back with a vengeance too just incase anyone was wondering

I insta-killed a few peeps on my hally dexer.

[Ragancy]

Thanks for the looking into this issue, Derrick.

One of my first observations from playing yesterday is that you can be in full stride and charge your wrestling timer. This ability seems different that being able to land a strike on the run, but perhaps I'm misunderstanding. I do think this new property makes playing a hally mage even more powerful. If it proves to makes dexers more viable, then I think it will just increase the overall playability of the PVP.

[Roser]

Big thanks to Derrick!

Mens Rea, the double hit was never gone, I've done countless double hits on my higher dex class's in the past months. I have even scored a few double hally hits on my tank mages here and there, its a very random thing to do it seems.

I would ask the question, is the frequency higher now that the movement restriction is out? I have not seen much evidence of a change.

[Ronk]

I can't speak for hally hits, as hallys are just smelt metal to orcs, but we'll def be giving this 'bugged patch' a run down tonight. Preliminary reports have orcs saying this feels much more like T2A, though I think its a little soon to be making that judgement call.

[Shane Dog]

1/20/98
"The delay before the first swing or shot will be much shorter; also, the time it takes to recover from movement in archery will also be much shorter (though the firing rate overall remains the same). You will not need to get new weapons for this change."

http://wiki.uosecondage.com/1998_Patch_Notes

[Missedsomuch]

Just started to play dexxer here.

it's NEA and just wrong.

Any 25 dex mage hit u as much as u can hit them. Why should there ever be charcter with 100 dex then? Why could I hit mage only when he done his halberd cycle.
Why there was dex monkeys back in t2a era. There was a lot of red dexxers, it was easy to train to 3xGM and go on rampage.

Just some random digs from 1999 groups made in 5 min. (our date is nov. 1999 right?)

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 06fb606f65

> Why is this viewed so negatively? My main guy is slowly turning into
> that (between the lumberjack/bower and hiding/stealth [hey, so I
> believe in running away...sue me]). I just wish I had gone swords or
> fencing instead of mace cause the axe was so handy...

Not sure why....I guess all those people that can't take a fast swinging
fighter (like mages) do not like them.

Why should mages ever care about fast swinging, if they could run and cycle helberd like here? Allowing dexxer to hit only when they decided to strike with helberd?

Bill Haverberg wrote:

Oh sorry if it came off in a negative manner. I was just listing the names my Dex
monkey has been called. I live by the dex monkey, and die by the mages. I think the
reason Dex monkey is veiwed so negatively is because Dex monkeys are the best fighter
next to a tank mage. They can rip through everyone. the dex macer is the best dex
fighter you can possibley get. With a quarter staff (just a tinny tinny tiny bit
slower than a kryss) you can knock someone to hell. so people are getting killed by
dex fighters, and of course are angry so the make fun of them.

u can't even rip through completly noob here if he decide to run away

100 Dex fencer. FAST damage. I like using mine against TankMage PK's.
ShortSpear to ooOOOOooo land...

Fast damage here? only if your is enemy is NPC who stand still in combat

Another thread in which noob complain about mages PKs:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 8bcc1d2ca5

If I try to rush at them with my katana,
hoping to interrupt them and kill them quickly it's useless. They teleport
away, cast another flamestrike, and I'm dead.

I think everyone who played back then will remember need of using teleport to escape fast dexxer and cast back (even noob character). Why would they teleport if they can outwalk any hit?

Another thread:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.game ... d7a27f8efb

In UO, you can be either a "dex monkey" or a "tank mage". Either one works well
for PvP.

Really?

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 7660ab285d

Dex monkey means high (100) dex. The typical dex monkey has 100 str,
100 dex, gm fencing or swords, tactics, high anatomy and is a nightmare
for every mage.

Really?

And here see directly mentioned fact of run and hit (may 1999)

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 2760e11122

The idea behind PvP weapons is SPEED...keep hitting that mage before
he can cast, chase that archer twink all over the screen WHILE beating
on him with the kryss, ect. If the stabd toe-to-toe with ya and slug
it out, yes, a hally might kill em faster, but that never happens.

Same thread, some love for REAL archery of T2A era

Bow is the best weapon to use when running. Give pk something to do while
chasing u! :>
Lawrence

More love to archers shooting while running
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... b0ba56e8c2

they will precast a spell, then hit you with
a heavy hitting weapon and cast the spell - however, as a fast moving archer,
they never hit you with said weapon (which makes them bitch at you for
"running").

However, on the flip side, it doesn't really generate enough offense
to really counter thme (so in a sense it is balanced - they can't hit me,
and I can't do much damage to them) - not to mention these fights tend to
go on and on and on and arrows run out However, until I turned off UO
this afternoon (once school let out hehe) I had 10 kills and 0 deaths,
and this was my 3rd day PvPing since march

no comments

Mage vs warrior
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... fbc5e40140

Most impoprtant quote (cuz it's not noob but PVPers discus)

The way melee combat works, I tend to use my katana until they are 40% down
and then while they are running to heal I arm my hally (UOA). By the time I
catch up, my swing timer is up and I have a 50% chance for a hit and a good
chance for a kill.

It's clearly stated that timer is working when u running.



I must say that it clearly something wrong with PVP system here. The magic works jsut like OSI (as i remember it), but weapons still have "freeshard" feel around them (if you ever played old pre RUN-UO shards), i never enjoyd. Only becouse of one mini patch note in UO:R.