UO Second Age

I was curious about the accuracy of the buff/debuffs on the server.
I remember that if you did not buff back enough of the debuff you couldn't be debuffed again.

IE: Weakened (-10 Str) / Cast Strength (+9) = over all stat change is -1. You couldn't be re-weakened until the effects wore off. Currently you can be re-weakened but only for -9. Back to the original -10.

I had dexxer who had 70.1 magery and it was designed so that I'd only ever be -2 off my base stats.

If it is possible to re-debuff players after they have been debuffed, then it seems as if it isn't working properly.

During the era, if you were under the effect of a stat buffing or weakening spell, you could not be placed under the same type of effect again. This meant that if someone weakened you for -10 stats, you could not be weakened again until that spell wore off. This was even true if you were weakened for -10 and then strengthened for +10 stat points. In that scenario, you were under the effect of both a strengthening effect and a weakening spell effect, but the actual effectiveness of the spell was cancelled out. It wasn't until UOR that identically matched buffs and debuffs removed the effects of both.

Kaivan wrote:If it is possible to re-debuff players after they have been debuffed, then it seems as if it isn't working properly.

During the era, if you were under the effect of a stat buffing or weakening spell, you could not be placed under the same type of effect again. This meant that if someone weakened you for -10 stats, you could not be weakened again until that spell wore off. This was even true if you were weakened for -10 and then strengthened for +10 stat points. In that scenario, you were under the effect of both a strengthening effect and a weakening spell effect, but the actual effectiveness of the spell was cancelled out. It wasn't until UOR that identically matched buffs and debuffs removed the effects of both.

Little confused, but I'll give you the exact test I ran.

Player A weakens Player B for -10 Strength. Player B cast Strength on self for +8 Strength, still has -2 Strength from the weaken. Player A cast weaken again on Player B for -8 Strength totally the original -10.

The second weaken attempt was supposed to give a message, Player B is under effect ect, but currently it is not so.

Something to add,

Currently on UOSA debuffs will interrupt spell casting and continue to interrupt spell casting while the target is under the same effect.

If I cast weaken on a target the normal spell animation will happen and the target will be weakened. If I cast weaken again on the same target before the first effect has worn off I will get a fizzle animation but still loose mana and hit the taget. If the target is casting a spell while the second weaken is cast, it will interrupt the targets casting.

Works with all debuffs, Weaken, Clumsy and Feeblemind. Probably Curse too, but I've never tried that.

That part is actually working properly. During the era, if you cast a debuff spell on someone, and then later tried to cast the same debuff spell while they were under the effects of the first one, it would consume mana and reagents, but produce the fizzle animation. The result is that it looked as if the spell was unsuccessful despite being cast normally. Regarding being disturbed by debuffs that appear to fizzle, this is due to the fact that during the era, if you cast a debuff spell on someone, the spell counted as being "hit" by a spell that did 0 damage. As a result, much like being hit by a low damage spell, a debuff has the ability to disrupt your spells due to it effectively hitting you, and if you are hit by a debuff that "fizzles" it still counts as hitting you in the same way that a regular debuff spell would.

Currently you can cast:

weaken
strength
rinse & repeat

Teeter totting the stat values back and forth forever. I thought this was the case on the demo as well. Sounds like you are saying it should be the opposite Kaivan. Am I correct or just reading it wrong?

Faust wrote:Sounds like you are saying it should be the opposite Kaivan. Am I correct or just reading it wrong?

You're quite correct in your reading. Casting a debuff and a buff on the demo, whether the two spells are of equal or unequal strength, prevents more buffs/debuffs of the same type from being successfully cast on the target until the last one has worn off.

Kaivan wrote:

Faust wrote:Sounds like you are saying it should be the opposite Kaivan. Am I correct or just reading it wrong?

You're quite correct in your reading. Casting a debuff and a buff on the demo, whether the two spells are of equal or unequal strength, prevents more buffs/debuffs of the same type from being successfully cast on the target until the last one has worn off.

so the way it currently is on server is not correct?

Given both your description and Faust's description, it seems to be working incorrectly at the moment.

Kaivan wrote:

Faust wrote:Sounds like you are saying it should be the opposite Kaivan. Am I correct or just reading it wrong?

You're quite correct in your reading. Casting a debuff and a buff on the demo, whether the two spells are of equal or unequal strength, prevents more buffs/debuffs of the same type from being successfully cast on the target until the last one has worn off.

Also, in the demo you can not drink a strength potion (or whatever type), if you are under a buff of the same effect.

To clarify on what Kaivan said with an example, in the demo, this is an example of the behaviour:

Cast a strength on yourself, the result is: +11 strength, for a total of +11 strength buff.
Cast a weaken on yourself, the result is -11 strength, bringing you to a 0 buff/debuff.

At this point, you have both a buff and a debuff active. No further buffs or debuffs can take place until the buff/debuff wears off.

If you now try to cast either weaken or strength on yourself, if will fizzle.
If you try drink a strength potion, you get the message "You are already under a similar effect".

That would make it possible to always have a strength buff of +9 by using a greater strength potion, since the maximum amount you would ever be able to be buffed/debuffed is +20 vs -11

PS: Why does UOSA have a -10 stat debuff at GM magery? I always assumed this was due to research on the demo, but even the demo has +11/-11 at GM magery.

nightshark wrote:PS: Why does UOSA have a -10 stat debuff at GM magery? I always assumed this was due to research on the demo, but even the demo has +11/-11 at GM magery.

The +10/-10 information comes from the stratics archive regarding resisting spells that was put together in late January, 1999.

What I remember is having some chars in T2A era stopped at 99.9 magery so that they'd compensate almost all debuff effect (-10 suffered from gm magery, +9 from 99.9 magery).
This was a common strategy. Because if you were to compensate equally, then debuff spell can cause you -10 again.

Kaivan wrote:

nightshark wrote:PS: Why does UOSA have a -10 stat debuff at GM magery? I always assumed this was due to research on the demo, but even the demo has +11/-11 at GM magery.

The +10/-10 information comes from the stratics archive regarding resisting spells that was put together in late January, 1999.

Is this planned to keep in? I'm sure I've read on the forums that it is inaccurate (as well as backed up by era screenshots).

The demo has it at +-11, from my time on OSI, I never knew it to be anything but +-11, in fact UOSA was the first time I ever saw it anything but. From the crap ton of times I've read through the patch notes I've never seen a mention of this being changed before AOS. I would think in this case, Stratics had it wrong.

nightshark wrote:

Kaivan wrote:

nightshark wrote:PS: Why does UOSA have a -10 stat debuff at GM magery? I always assumed this was due to research on the demo, but even the demo has +11/-11 at GM magery.

The +10/-10 information comes from the stratics archive regarding resisting spells that was put together in late January, 1999.

Is this planned to keep in? I'm sure I've read on the forums that it is inaccurate (as well as backed up by era screenshots).

The demo has it at +-11, from my time on OSI, I never knew it to be anything but +-11, in fact UOSA was the first time I ever saw it anything but. From the crap ton of times I've read through the patch notes I've never seen a mention of this being changed before AOS. I would think in this case, Stratics had it wrong.

I remember +-11 as well, and keeping my magery at 99.9 on my parry warrior purely for the debuff advantage.

If we have any screenshots we can establish as being something during T2A after the resist changes, or other documented evidence from the time, then we can certainly consider changing the values from +/1 10 to 11. I just don't recall any such screenshots actually showing up as evidence.