Gating monsters

[Silverfoot]

Edit: Sorry, I think I misunderstood your comment. I'm saying all the posts in that thread are from July 1998.

[esteban]

How do we know the dates are right then? Because it really seems like they are refering to Summer of '98 since they are talking about the the Rep patch that just went in.

The very nature of how NNTP works is described in RFC 977 http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc977.html
Within the protocol RFC, the following is stated

If posting is permitted, the article should be presented in the format specified by RFC850, and should include all required header lines.

Subsequently referring to RFC850 http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc850.html, the following is stated

The Date line (formerly "Posted") is the date, in a format that must be acceptable both to the ARPANET and to the getdate routine, that the article was originally posted to the network. This date remains unchanged as the article is propagated throughout the network.

This is the reason why the timestamp on the headers are to be believed.

Sincerely,

Esteban

*Edit: added link to RFC850

[Silverfoot]

Let me lay out the evidence here.

First, all the posts are marked Nov. 11, 1999 at 1:00AM. So at the very least the time is wrong, but probably the whole date.

Second, they are refering to the Rep patch that "just went in". The Rep patch went in in June of 1998.

Third, in the thread, one post is quoting a post from earlier in the thread that dates July 7th, 1998. It is a direct response to that poster, so was likely made within a reasonable time after that.

This would put the posts right before the patch that took the gating of monsters out in 1998.

[Derrick]

While the header dates on these posts are complete prima facie evidence of the actual post date, it's equally as hard to dispute these three points.

Second, they are refering to the Rep patch that "just went in". The Rep patch went in in June of 1998.

Third, in the thread, one post is quoting a post from earlier in the thread that dates July 7th, 1998. It is a direct response to that poster, so was likely made within a reasonable time after that.

This would put the posts right before the patch that took the gating of monsters out in 1998.

I don't understand this, but all changes to the enticement skill are on hold until i do understand it.

[Silverfoot]

Any thread I look at in that news group from November 11th 1999 that quotes posts within it, the quoted posts (from earlier in the same thread) are from early in July 1998. Something is definitely wrong with the date.

[esteban]

Here is another interesting usenet post dated December 4th, 1998 (post Rep patch).
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... ode=source

You can't gate (well easily gate) monsters anymore. Notice I suggested a time limit too?

Thread URL
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... +monsters#

This post seem to suggest that that the intention of disallowing the gating of monsters was not completely eliminated as OSI had hoped.

[Batlin]

Can you all take a look at the timestamps at this archive:
http://groups.google.be/group/rec.games ... nd+take%22

[esteban]

Can you all take a look at the timestamps at this archive:
http://groups.google.be/group/rec.games ... nd+take%22

Awesome find!

The archive linked by Batlin indicates that the previous Nov 11, 1999 thread was indeed posted as a continued discussion before the Rep patch.

http://groups.google.be/group/rec.games ... ode=source
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... ode=source

Judging from the difference in two headers, Batlin's link seems highly likely to be the original post for two reasons:
1. The exact same usenet post was archived with the July 9th 1998 timestamp
2. X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 (suggesting that this post was originally made using Outlook Express 4.72.2106)

I personally find it highly likely that the poster was using Windows as his OS (afterall, he was playing UO) as well as using the Outlook Express' built-in NNTP functionality to post the original message.

I don't know about the others, but I'm convinced on this one.

Sincerely,

Esteban

*Edit: typo on Outlook Express version

[archaicsubrosa77]

Indeed it was a post about gating monsters in July of 98 that wasnt addressed until November of 99. It was part of game mechanics. When they started to address the issue many looked up past posts on the issue thus even though it was addressed in July 0f 98 they didnt decide to patch it until Nov 99 and the enticement skill was set to discordance in its place during the UO:R era.
That means for the whole period from July of 98 or before to Mid November of 99 enticement worked as it does now maybe even better.

[Batlin]

Indeed it was a post about gating monsters in July of 98 that wasnt addressed until November of 99. It was part of game mechanics. When they started to address the issue many looked up past posts on the issue thus even though it was addressed in July 0f 98 they didnt decide to patch it until Nov 99 and the enticement skill was set to discordance in its place during the UO:R era.
That means for the whole period from July of 98 or before to Mid November of 99 enticement worked as it does now maybe even better

No it's not.
The post I found is the exact one as posted before only the dates are July 1998 and the headers were not modified by the NewsGate v1.0 program. Feel free to compare the whole post archive from 1998 with the other post archive from 1999.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Indeed it was a post about gating monsters in July of 98 that wasnt addressed until November of 99. It was part of game mechanics. When they started to address the issue many looked up past posts on the issue thus even though it was addressed in July 0f 98 they didnt decide to patch it until Nov 99 and the enticement skill was set to discordance in its place during the UO:R era.
That means for the whole period from July of 98 or before to Mid November of 99 enticement worked as it does now maybe even better

No it's not.
The post I found is the exact one as posted before only the dates are July 1998 and the headers were not modified by the NewsGate v1.0 program. Feel free to compare the whole post archive from 1998 with the other post archive from 1999.

The headers on posts that were against gating monsters was indeed in 98' but the posts that spoke of the patch to end enticement and replace it with UO:R styled discordance was late 99'.

[Batlin]

The headers on posts that were against gating monsters was indeed in 98' but the posts that spoke of the patch to end enticement and replace it with UO:R styled discordance was late 99'.

I must be missing something, where is it being said that you could use enticement to gate monsters?

[Batlin]

A related post I found : http://groups.google.be/group/rec.games ... 4abaf9976b

[Derrick]

The post I found is the exact one as posted before only the dates are July 1998 and the headers were not modified by the NewsGate v1.0 program. Feel free to compare the whole post archive from 1998 with the other post archive from 1999.

Nice find. I don't know by what mechanism the dates were messed up on the usenet posts, but I'm glad we have confirmed the accurate timestamp. There are certain things in the timeline that are pretty indisputible such as the date of the rep patch, which was certainly not in 1999; I'm glad we've settled this mystery.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Yeah it's great that people can gate in monsters to kill newbies and take their stuff. That's just terrific. Sorry Bob
your in the minority. The poll at UHOC showed the rep system being supported by 88%. The game has challange, you can still PvP
in guild wars. And if you really really want to, you can murder. Some of us have enough imangination to find ways to have fun
without any combat at all.
-Matt Miller
This was a poll taken not a patch Baitlin, it has no post from any staff saying of its implementation in fact I have yet to find one.
Here is an original post not a reply to an older post that tells us gating monsters was possible still in Nov 99
http://groups.google.be/group/rec.games ... 0b7f38c12d
And whatever the patch you all are talking about probably had nothing to do with directive skills anyway that's probably why people could still gate monsters in another way rather then attack them cast gate and then stand on the other side. So later Discordance replaced entice so it could not be used to gate any longer when UO:R was released. Yet herding was untouched.
Not being allowed to gate monsters is not T2A accurate.