Gating monsters

[archaicsubrosa77]

Okay so where is the Patch.....must be a fix then somewhere. Or did people just think to use entice to lure npcs and just dropped it after that.
They find patches and they patch the game, I dont think they reprogram it. If they cant find the patch used way back then it doesnt exist. Prove it exists....

[Caswallon]

Uhm the patch notes are about 4 pages back. You can argue it as much as you like, this never happened in era on OSI. FACT.

[Caswallon]

And im going to point this out again. Look at the ammount of cartoon strips from T2A era, now find me one, just one that features monster stealing/gating. Galad, b0n3gUy and Plat3d3wd, ImaNewbie etc, not one features this mechanic, pretty much the ultimate grief mechanice, where by were it possible everyone would have had enticement. The people who used it for sandals/nobles would have discovered this, they didnt because it was not possible.

You have not found something 150,000 people missed 12 years ago, because it was not there to be found.

Edit: And anothe thing, is this was possible, how come no question about it RE: flagging & reputation bard FAQ? Something along the lines of:

Scenario: Earl the Bard entices a monster towards a player and leaves, monster then attacks and kills bob the innocent. Or Earl the Bard entices and leads/gates a group of monsters to another place, monsters attack and kill bob.

Is earl and aggresor?
Is earl a criminal?

Etc, were this possible the flagging consequences[or lack there off] would be covered by that FAQ no?

http://web.archive.org/web/200001300730 ... bards.html

[archaicsubrosa77]

Uhm the patch notes are about 4 pages back. You can argue it as much as you like, this never happened in era on OSI. FACT.

Those patch notes are for pathfinding around gates for creatures that are not under the players control...ie tamed/enticed. So if you got away by gating the monster would not follow.

[Caswallon]

Your asking us to find proof this was not possible, i ask you to find proof that it was. Works both ways.

Given the perceived problems OSI had with griefers, PKs, notos etc in this time period, do you really, honestly, realistically think they would leave something this open to exploitation on live servers?

Sorry, i aint buying it.

[Derrick]

I am in agreement that this is an inaccurate mechanic. This probably won't be fixed until next publish, but that may be soon, we will also have some fixes coming in for the problems of creatures not respawning when they get out of their home area, but are unable to get back.

I understand the debate on both sides of this issue, and although it's not an accurate mechanic there would be no need to rush in a fix if it wasn't being so heavily abused. This mechanic has existed on the shard for well over a year.

[Hoots]

Gosh, i hate to go against the majority here but i do think this was possible in t2a... (at least in some form)

I dont know the specfics but i had watched our guild tamer tame WW's out in the open in t2a where he could trap them on ledges. Cant say if this was entice gate or not but i know you could get monsters out.

What people arnt accounting for is that hardly anyone had entice as a skill... Those who did were not using it to greif... they were using it to roleplay for a bard.

No Razor, no macroing (atleast not like we have here), no mass info on the game, no 15 chars to toy with, no gming magery on worthless chars...etc etc.

To build a gm mage just to entice gate during t2a would have been a HUGE investment in time and money...

while nothing i type here is proof of this existing it also throws out alot of the "everyone would have been doing it" claims..

Just my thoughts.

Dont forget just how hard it was to build chars on t2a (if you were like me and didnt dupe gold/reags). I wont even type how long it took for me to GM magery the first time...

[esteban]

I understand the debate on both sides of this issue, and although it's not an accurate mechanic there would be no need to rush in a fix if it wasn't being so heavily abused. This mechanic has existed on the shard for well over a year.

What people arnt accounting for is that hardly anyone had entice as a skill... Those who did were not using it to greif... they were using it to roleplay for a bard.
while nothing i type here is proof of this existing it also throws out alot of the "everyone would have been doing it" claims..

This mechanic has existed on the shard for well over a year, yet no one has thought about the use of this mechanic because the majority seem more interested in the combat player versus player aspect of the game.

Until this mechanic was discovered recently, no one has even thought about doing this.

Derrick has already stated, in this thread, that it is his belief that the mechanic is not era accurate.
It is his shard, and I respect his decision.

However, I do find it rather ironic that:
1. the mechanic has been in place for over a year
2. the majority of the shard population never even thought about using the enticement skill in this manner
3. some players are claiming that "everyone would have been doing it if it were possible"

Yet:
1. only a handful of players actually tried to use this mechanic after this specific mechanic has been brought to light
2. only when a game mechanic is "abused" (while abusing other players with the combat skill mechanic is tolerated) has brought such debate

Upon researching the nightmare spawns, a few of us have come to acknowledge that a certain tamer farms the nightmare spawns, extremely frequently around the clock, to sell them for gold. As most of the player-base already know, the island north of Delucia is one of the nightmare spawns. Putting the two together, the probability of griefing said tamer (which happens to be a player who strongly opposes current mechanics for obvious reasons), by gating several deadly mobs to a secluded island spawn, was high.

Effect? Said tamer recalled onto the island (as expected), died rather quickly (as expected), raged on IRC (not expected), came back with a herd of dragons and mounted on a nightmare (not expected), had his pets dead as well as himself (we didn't expect the guy to risk his pets in this manner), and saw another comment added to this thread by this tamer (as expected).

I realize that the social engineering aspect of this shard is not as glorified as the combat mechanic, but what is the difference between a gank squad compared to so-called "death traps" if both happens outside of the guard zone? (This is meant to be rhetorical).


Sincerely,

Esteban

[tekai]

If you are talking about me, I didn't die. This was about the White wyrm being Gone from ice dungeon. Thats ALL this was about.

After i first noticed you doing it i started to gate-hide-gate to check if the wyrm was still there.

After getting a no from Maaches asking to respawn or .kill that white wyrm, i ported in with 7 dragons and 2 white wyrms. I killed the wyrm, loosing 3 dragons but succesfully evac'ed and restabled.

After i won your little game, i proceded back to ice, where there were a squad of ace goons. Not that they could ever kill me on my tamer. An hour later, its back on nightmare 3 island and once again not in ice dungeon.

Use the truth please, Screenshots or it didnt happen.

P.S.
Era Accurately selling Nightmares! PM Olmanriver in IRC

[esteban]

If you are talking about me, I didn't die. This was about the White wyrm being Gone from ice dungeon. Thats ALL this was about.

After i first noticed you doing it i started to gate-hide-gate to check if the wyrm was still there.

Not once did I claim to have gated the monsters onto the island. I did hypothesize that nightmare farmers could be griefed if the secluded island had deadly mobs gated in, but I was not involved with the act myself.

Use the truth please, Screenshots or it didnt happen.

I would request this logic to be applied to you, with screenshots backing up your accusation of me "doing it", but in the trashtalk forum. I chose not to name the specific tamer for a reason. The description of events was used to illustrate that the social engineering and planning for a griefing, is one of the many aspects of this game, just as the PK gank squads syncing for a sure kill. If I wanted to talk trash about this particular tamer, I would've done so in the trashtalk forum--where such dialogs belong.

[Hemperor]

However, I do find it rather ironic that:
1. the mechanic has been in place for over a year
2. the majority of the shard population never even thought about using the enticement skill in this manner
3. some players are claiming that "everyone would have been doing it if it were possible"

This is a poor arguement. The major taming overhaul was hardly even thought of before it was "exploited" for a period of about 2 months where tamers would roll with 15 dragons, insta killing people with "all kill". It forced people to look into and discuss the issue. Previously there was no need to even consider thinking about enticement, now there is.

I say remove this ability for now, if any proof happens to come up in the future that displays this was even possible (currently, there is none) then it may deserve a chance of reimplementation.

[archaicsubrosa77]

Your asking us to find proof this was not possible, i ask you to find proof that it was. Works both ways.

Given the perceived problems OSI had with griefers, PKs, notos etc in this time period, do you really, honestly, realistically think they would leave something this open to exploitation on live servers?

Sorry, i aint buying it.

Proof it was is it works now. Being we downloaded a later version where spellbooks say that poison affects poison/poisonfield there were elves, etc etc tells me it wasnt fixed to do otherwise until a later date if at all.
I GMed Enticement, why not remove taming as well. I got insta killed by a macro by a tamer just because I revealed myself because he was blue and I thought he was a good guy at 100 health. Why dont you just aid in Trammel and fix all your newbie style complaints?
If people can drop their tames off and have them guard a certain creature to farm while you are away etc etc to me is the same thing. The first instance I was killed by UOSA player I was looting from his dragons kills that he left unattended in Gazers. To me thats the same thing but its okay for him because they respawn plain and simple. His dragons that he tamed respawned other then that he was doing the same thing and if you have that much control over an area where you can hunt and not be there and just collect. Then show up when other character are there and kill them instantly that is too much power and abuse of the mechanics if you put it like that.

[Trellor]

I posted this on recall's thread as well, but thought it would be good to put it here as well.. This one has *multiple* people all talking about gating monsters in the present tense and how OSI should fix it etc. Many many examples are present. The date is Nov 1999.


http://groups.google.com/group/rec.game ... 9b1cc72075

I for one would like to be able to go to a "newbie area" and not fight the most
difficult mosters. I will take the risk of PKs now that the Rep patch is in
(that makes every area at least somewhat unpredictable).

But if you want stronger mosters go find them. The people gating them know
where they are if you want more interesting game play then go out and find it!
Does everything have to come to you?

> I am alone in NOT wanting to see this practice abolished ???

No. I as well as many other people who are NOT abusing it do
not wish to see it go.

While I think it's stupid to gate monsters into newbie dungons too,
that's not the only use for gating monsters. I happen to enjoy fight
night's against monsters. I'm a miner and may never venture into a
dungon. I did have a chance to see a drake once that was gated to
Oasis and it was great. Also what about tamers? Do they have to walk
tamed creatures from on place to another? OSI need's to fix dungon
gating of them without breaking the useful gates.

Yeah it's great that people can gate in monsters to kill newbies and take
their stuff. That's just terrific. Sorry Bob

Yes. They should make it impossible to gate them into
dungeons. That's all.

Well. I just have to add my voice. Gating of anything but tame creatures
should be impossible. I am tired of going to Coveteous only to find 5 people
standing outsides becuase some lame blue murderer has gated in a poison
elemental. It is just another exploit that is used by murderers who are too
chickenshit to be turned red for their deeds. Granted, good characters have
fun gating too and don't do it just for looting the dead but this is getting
ridiculous. This whole game is being taken over by exploiters. OSI needs to
take a MUCH harder stand on these people. Before the rep system it was EV's
and BS. Then it was bunnies guarding chests. Now it is gated monsters and
polymorphed orcs. What's next?? Some kind of spell that makes you explode
when you say, "Vendor Bank Buy Guards." No, wait, that would be good....

and it continues for many posts.. These are dated Nov. 11, 1999.

*Edited to add more quotes and post the date*

[MatronDeWinter]

Great post trellor.

[esteban]

Great post trellor.

Interesting find indeed.