This whole Era Accurate Argument

[Lonebob]

i will buy you irl with uo gold

Please do not solicit prostitution on the forums. Don't you read the rules? Sheesh

[Wise]

i will buy you irl with uo gold

Please do not solicit prostitution on the forums. Don't you read the rules? Sheesh

I duno Derrick was not very specific with that rule....

Soliciting prostitution on the forums would likely not be allowed, but that would be a different rule.

[tunguska]

If you don't want this to be anything but pure 2nd age then just say so.

Uhhhh...the shards NAME is "Second Age".

[DrFaustus]

I provide escorts...for a handsome fee.

[Smelly Ira]

My 2 cents:

I'm a UO noob, I played for a teeny bit on divinity and demise...long enough to see they weren't for me, learn the very basics of things like farming and razor use...never played OSI, spent five minutes on hybrid and left because it's incredibly ugly.

I started donating monthly here. I still haven't even experienced 3/4ths of the game.

Why? It's the most fun i've had in an MMO since DAoC years ago, from getting (creatively I might add) griefed by cA, to just messing around doing PvM stuff, to the teeny bit pvp i've been exposed to...it's a unique experience. There are things that seems contradictory to me (getting paid to PvP for instance), and I don't understand why they are part of the landscape.

That said, it seems like the strength of this shard is the impartial "accuracy" approach of Derrick et. al, having the same set of rules, applying them to everyone, and not allowing for changes which benefit one playstyle over another is about as enlightened an attitude as you could have in a venture like this. The fact that changes are evidence based rather than opinion or "feeling" based is a big, big, deal IMO.

Just the mission statement on the front page is a cut above in terms of what it is trying to achieve, and indeed this seems to be what sets it apart. I'd rather see slavish adherence to accuracy than allowing more and more new stuff...

New stuff is generally what ruins MMO's, sure there are exceptions...but generally they are a sad attempt to keep people playing who should be moving on, trying to keep all player pleased all the time, that's how games die.

[Manfromx]

New stuff is generally what ruins MMO's, sure there are exceptions...but generally they are a sad attempt to keep people playing who should be moving on, trying to keep all player pleased all the time, that's how games die.

It's comments like this though that just seem crazy to me. New stuff is not some weird thing MMO's have tried and realised doesn't work so they've gone to a do nothing stance. Almost every MMO is in the business of providing new stuff. If new stuff was how these games died then how come none of the games that have gone on to make new stuff have died?

DAoC, UO, WoW, Eve, Everquest 1+2, City of Heroes etc etc. All these add new stuff and keep going. In fact of all the MMO's that have died it was always the ones that didn't usually even make it to expansion pack 1.

I'm sorry but for an MMO not to add new stuff puts you outside the norm.

You may not like new stuff for whatever reason but the evidence points to it retaining a customer base, not destroying one. Sure there are people out there that always think the past was better and in some cases they may be right. It's certainly not all cases though. A lot of times expansions and additions have added many interesting elements to games.

I said a few pages ago that all of you must have liked what OSI was doing. At least right up until the end of T2A or else you'd all be on a Pre T2A server. That was an expansion. It had lots of new stuff and apparently, it was good? Wah?!

You gotta be careful with nostalgia. Things usually look better when you compare to what annoys you right now with what annoyed you back then. Obviously one is a lot more annoying because it's actually happening lol.

[Smelly Ira]

It's comments like this though that just seem crazy to me. New stuff is not some weird thing MMO's have tried and realised doesn't work so they've gone to a do nothing stance. Almost every MMO is in the business of providing new stuff. If new stuff was how these games died then how come none of the games that have gone on to make new stuff have died?

They don't provide new stuff because the old stuff isn't working, they provide new stuff because the business model is to simply make money on cheap gimmicks, rather than to create a certain experience. Most MMO's suck after a few expansions, sure there are exceptions but I feel pretty confident in saying this.

DAoC, UO, WoW, Eve, Everquest 1+2, City of Heroes etc etc. All these add new stuff and keep going. In fact of all the MMO's that have died it was always the ones that didn't usually even make it to expansion pack 1.

Case in point, ToA expansion runined DAoC, drove off a large portion of their playerbase, WoW also became more and more vapid with each new addition. Amount of subscribers and amount of content doesn't mean anything in terms of quality of gaming experience...popularity does not make something good.

I'm sorry but for an MMO not to add new stuff puts you outside the norm.

Thank f'ing god for that, being outside ther norm for modern MMO's means you are doing something right. I decided to try out UO on freeshards specifically to no longer experience "the norm" of modern MMOs.

You may not like new stuff for whatever reason but the evidence points to it retaining a customer base, not destroying one. Sure there are people out there that always think the past was better and in some cases they may be right. It's certainly not all cases though. A lot of times expansions and additions have added many interesting elements to games.

Well thank god this isn't a purely commercial venture, otherwise i'm sure we'd all be riding around on beetles and all kinds of dumb stuff. Sorry but the things that expansion have added to most MMO's have been bad..usuallu the first one will add a few ok things, and things quickly degrade from that point on. The admins here obviously care about having a certain kind of environment, not just profit, which is what a game like WoW is all about, so even comparing the two is ridiculous.

I said a few pages ago that all of you must have liked what OSI was doing. At least right up until the end of T2A or else you'd all be on a Pre T2A server. That was an expansion. It had lots of new stuff and apparently, it was good? Wah?!

Yeah just like DAoC was good after SI expansion, awful after ToA...you pick and choose what gameplay elements made it simple and effective, not constantly add new crap, moving away from the core design.

You gotta be careful with nostalgia. Things usually look better when you compare to what annoys you right now with what annoyed you back then. Obviously one is a lot more annoying because it's actually happening lol.

I have NO nostalgia because I never played on OSI, I just know an intelligent setup when I see it, and this is most definitely a smarter way of doing things than the other shards, near as I can tell.

Obviously I can only speak as a newb with no OSI to compare these shards to, but honestly the other (custom) shards I have messed around with were such an obvious joke (giveaways to certain folks, low population, catering to one or another group) that it wasn't even worth trying my hand,

This shard was exciting enough that I started here literally with no idea what I was doing, ran around in the wilderness and killed things until I could afford a small...while there are flaws, clearly they have managed to recreate at least a little of the "magic" that was this era of the game.

So whether you like it or not, this ruleset and way of managing the shard seems to be effective.

[Manfromx]

Well I'm glad you're not trapped by nostalgia .

It honestly is a good time setting and I'm not suggesting it mostly sucks or anything.

I'm simply pointing out the flaw in your argument that anytime you add new things it "sucks". So the only way to keep the game pure is to let it never change (stagnate). Which it will in time for almost everyone. As long as you keep getting new blood in though that should be fine.

Unfortunately even though you seem to think subscribers don't matter or releases make the games get vapid or easy doesn't mean they all do. Subscribers do matter. People playing does equal to success. If this shard had 10 people playing it's not a success because it's "pure". It's a success when it can draw a crowd.

You obviously have some pent up anger over devs "ruining" your games with new content. OSI did it to me and I'm willing to let other people take a try at it. I don't jump from one extreme to the next. If there are worthwhile things to add. Well add them! If all you have are gimmicks. Don't add them.

Sure I can see the folly of adding new stuff only to add "new" stuff. That's when you end up with beetles to ride on and some other ridiculous gaming inventions. Similar to how products in the real world can be completely ridiculous simply because someone is chasing the $$$ and not trying to provide an actual valuable product.

This doesn't mean we need to not try to improve the car, or TV or internet access etc. Progress is good. Sometimes people lose sight of what progress is and mess up. Yah that sucks. I just don't see the need to completely write off the attempt.

In regards to this shard though. I'm cool with them staying pure. I wish they'd experiment a little. I mean it's a game. Who would they be hurting? However since they almost want this shard to be a living museum I understand it's place a lot better.
It's like it's frozen in time lol. Interesting concept. It's just not normal in the world of MMO's.

If it's successful enough who knows. Maybe a second shard with mirrored characters where they bravely try to improve on OSI's design .

[TheEttinKing]

To be honest if i could find a shard that was felucca and had all the new stuff i would play it.

[Smelly Ira]

ManfromX..you need to reread the stuff on the front page, I think you are missing the point.

It isn't just about content, it's about how they arrive at the decision of what content should be there, that makes all the difference, opening to the door to allow more and more new stuff would over time erase this kind of system....this shard isn't just what it is because it's t2a..there's probably a reason they not only have mention of content, but of their decision making process on the front page, they seem to care about the process...not just content.

It's HOW they are implementing it and organizing it, IMO it's a vastly superior model for interesting, engaging gameplay than the usual haphazard experimentation and appealing to certain demographics that you see not only on freeshards, but with commercial MMOs.

There are definitely issues with the longevity of the shard, but I don't think that lack of new housing types or little additions will be the deciding factor in the shards longevity.

I can appreciate the point you are trying to make, but I think you are assuming that this is just about adding new content or not, and it really isn't.

[Gicod]

Okay, put it like this. You dont take a time-honored literary classic and start adding chapters because you already read it the old way and thought a few changes might spruce it up do you? Its a classic as-is you enjoy it for what it is.

The idea of the "T2A era" to most players encompasses the time frame replicated here. This shards sole purpose is to preserve that era in its fullest possible integrity. T2A was the golden age, the great classic. Adding non-era features would negate the shard's whole purpose in life, can you not see this? Its dedication to the purity of the era is one huge thing that sets this shard apart from the rest of the pack.

I have never played a free shard until I found this place, what brought myself and I am sure plenty of others, here initially was the era accuracy. You just dont change a classic man.

[uofuntime]

To be honest if i could find a shard that was felucca and had all the new stuff i would play it.

siege perilous!

[Kordavox]

Gotta say, screw you Divinity! The T2A accuracy standard makes this shard work, and debates are making Divinity wither and die. Its why I was willing to start over here.

Things that could stand to be changed are things that legitimately challenge era-accuracy from a meta-gaming perspective: multiple accounts, razor, etc, but the latter is unavoidable and the former... I couldn't enjoy the game without it, but it has its fair share of problems.

[Manfromx]

I understand you guys love the era but I find it funny cutting bandages one by one is compared to a "literary work". I know it's part of the narrative in your mind but unfortunately it's a flawed game mechanic.

A game isn't a book. A game has certain functions in order to be enjoyable. Obviously Razor gives you incredible flexibility in not having to deal with all the tedium. That's not era accurate for me but I'll use it to improve the overall experience. I'm sure you guys mostly use it too. You definitely cherry pick what is and isn't "accurate".

I hope you guys understand why I say you treat T2A as if it's holy work. It's not. It's not perfect, it didn't get EVERYTHING right and it CAN be made better.

With that being said you certainly don't have to improve anything. So I hope you are reading my posts all the way through. I've mentioned in almost every post that I enjoy the shard as is. I just see possibility for small improvements that will improve the overall experience for me. I understand you don't feel the same way.

I think my living museum comment sums up that I have a firm grasp of what you guys want.

I enjoy T2A immensely. I just refuse to worship at the altar of this flawed god. Instead I'll try and donate some bucks to this shard and show that I do appreciate the effort gone into this fine recreation.

I just wish you guys could admit this isn't the pinnacle of gaming. It's still great though .

[Pac]

I hope you guys understand why I say you treat T2A as if it's holy work. It's not. It's not perfect, it didn't get EVERYTHING right and it CAN be made better.

No one said it was perfect, your posts are growing increasingly condescending.

It didn't get everything right but we aren't here to fix them, the goal was never to create a perfect* shard.

*perfect as defined specifically as what Manfromx deems it as