Whats the deal with PvP

[MatronDeWinter]

I was curious what everyones problem is with the various styles of PvP. I am probably one of the least PvPing people on the shard, with the exception of Wise, and some of the other Crafter/PvM'ers, although I do have a Macer-Tank still in training. in any case, taking a look at it from an outside point of view, I see a few common templates.

You have the Tank mages using various weapons, even archery. They suffer from low dex, but make up for it by utilizing the 2 second re-equip swing and by holstering some of the most packed Total-Refresh stuffed backpacks I have ever seen.

Then there are the pure dexers, it seems that the most productive have some form of magery and make use of poisoned weapons. Some have Parry, some even have the poisoning skill to re-apply poison while moving. The current downfall as I understand it is the sometimes inability to kill someone before they recall, as the swing timer does not advance while moving.

Finally there is another catagory, that we used to call hybrids back on osi. I hear it called medi-dexer here however. These are like normal, bandaid-using, dexers, but they are also users of Magery coupled with Meditation, and I have seen some with eval, but that doesnt seem common. They tend to have only enough mana to cast a couple of Greater Heals at once.

It looks like a classic game of rock-paper-scissor from my standpoint. Equally played, Tank mages should have the upper hand on Dexers, as the dexer cannot heal quickly, and the capability of the tank to put out high damage in a small amount of time is damaging. Toss in the poison spell, and they become extremelt potion-reliant, at least until they run out of potions and possibly die from missing too many times in a row.

The Dexer has a clear advantage over the Medi-dexer. Armor reduces or eliminated the medi's mana regeneration rate, so naturally they sport little or none. The dexer can interupt the medi-dexer while he/she casts, due to the lack of wrestling. Without the ability to cast, the medidexer is quite defenseless to a fast weapon, that is likely poisoned, and they also lost a great deal amount of damage vs an opponent with parry.

The medi-dexer however, can be the crux of the Tank mages. They have endurance, they can keep swinging on a tank mage and interupt their 2-second weapon hits, while being able to heal, supplimented by bandaids, an ability not typical on the straight-dexer. Naturally, as they rely on casting heal/cure/debuff spells, they are likely to keep one precasted, in the same way a tank would have explode or something cast.

Here is what I am curious about. If a dexer attacks a Tank Mage and sticks to them using attack-last, they get ousted as using poor tactics, even if they are victorious. A medi-dexer, whos template is created around pre-casting heal, will be criticized substantially for pre-casting the very heal that may deem him victorious. The tank mage, can be ousted for using either one of those tactics as well.

The three major templates there all have a weapon skill. Fencing is common with poisoners but seems to suffer from a low magic-weapon drop. Swords is popular because of the speed of the katana, as well as the high damage of the hally, plus they are poisonable. Macing, deals out some low damage numbers, but the speed and damage over time of the quarterstaff are great, and the stamina-draining effect can be devestating. Archery, is very slow, due to it's lack of insta-refresh, but can be greay on a dexer for a killing blow, or for a tank mage that roams in a group.

The rules of PvP.
Ok, so you cannot pre-cast heal. Ok, well why not?? It's okay to precast and hold explode, but not heal? I understand this makes fights long and drawn out, but this is clearly biased agains medi-dexers and other defensive playstyles.

No poison or potions allowed...
Ok, well the dexer is screwed for the most part then, unless they sport some magery, there is a good chance the floor will be wiped with them.

..except for Red Pots.
WHAT? Ok, so your saying, a heal potion, that a dexer relies on, cannot be used, but a red potion, that a tank mage would NEED to survive agains a macer of any sort are completely okay? Even though the tank chose to have such a low amount of dex, directly effecting his stamina to begin with? How does that work?


Clearly all of these strategies, have some distinct advantages. A tank mage had better kill a macer before their stamina runs out, a dexer had better do a great job of staying on top of a tank mage/mage or else they risk being destroyed by a Hally-swingin-fastcast-parade, and a medidexer would be lucky to even kill someone with such a low damage output, and while poisoning and macing helps, they cannot re-apply poison and will run out of weapons, and opponents can defend agains the mace-stamina loss.

It all seems logically even from this standpoint, but the rules of "PvP" are completely in favor of the Tank Mage. Why is this?

I'm not trying to make a bash against tank-mages, or any other styles of play. (Heck, I play a tank mage, rather poorly), I was just wondering what everyone elses thoughts on this are and how it came to be like this.

[Orsi]

All those 'rules' are just there so people can whine about why they lost. The fact is, whoever is best equipped and stays alive is the better player.

Now, in a duel, when you agree to certain rules, then its a different story. For the most part, all potions are off-limits because they usually negate each other; makes the fight last longer than it should and only complicates things. Duels between two templates should allow for whatever they so choose to have on them and risk, but most people are sensitive to losing and therefore want to gimp the other as much as possible.

[MatronDeWinter]

All those 'rules' are just there so people can whine about why they lost. The fact is, whoever is best equipped and stays alive is the better player.

Now, in a duel, when you agree to certain rules, then its a different story. For the most part, all potions are off-limits because they usually negate each other; makes the fight last longer than it should and only complicates things. Duels between two templates should allow for whatever they so choose to have on them and risk, but most people are sensitive to losing and therefore want to gimp the other as much as possible.

I agree, but people act like theres some written anti-pre-heal, no heal/cure pot law in place, even without any specific notification.

[Faust]

There are "rules" or a common "consensus" when fighting if you want respect for being any good. If you are simply trying to kill someone that wouldn't really matter to most... However, I don't see the point in playing a washed up decade old game in this case when there are plenty of other games that are much better that can provide this for you. The tradtional mentality brought about from the early days of UO was simply being the best and most skilled pvp'er at the game. If you use tactics such as prep-healing that doesn't make you the best. If both parties prep heal there is no win or outcome in most situations between two good players. It simply goes on until regs are fully consumed. Did you really outskill your opponet when you killed him without regs? No, you simply won the item pvp game which isn't a form of skill at all. These rules were crafted in the early days by the best of the game. It eliminates redundant or boring tactics that if both parties utilized the outcome would be simply a waste. If you want to go kill people for the hell of it go play CS, Quake, or some other kill, die, respawn game. You will not gain any respect from any decent pvp'er here if you break the rules that has been place since the very beginning days of UO. Your reputation among any decent pvp'er will simply be trash and nothing more.

[noxmonk]

The only thing that matters in PvP are winners win and losers lose. Winners get ousted as not having a lot of skill because they use tactics that some people find unseemly. Fact is, if you win a 1v1 fight using any tactics allowed by the game (save for bugs,glitching,euo, etc.) you're better, period. If the other person was better, they would have won.

There were a bunch of retarded c/o kids back in T2A who always cried about how DP wasn't fair, pots, etc. My guild was spammed constantly for being bad because we steamrolled people 1v1, 2v2, 10 v1(us 10), and used everything at our disposal to do so. DP, pots, boxes, wall of stoning people on sideline mages who couldn't do shit in town, explo pot combos.

It boils down to the rules were made by people who felt they were more skilled, except they couldn't use everything available so they made up rules so inside of their ruleset they could pretend they were good. It was entertaining and will be in the future once I get my pvp char finished, been slacking off making a cartog and other char recently though =\.

Anyway, the only rule of PvP is win. After that, it's all player bullshit which doesn't mean jack at the end of the day.

[Fwerp]

Matron, the reason is that if both people precast heal, the fight will never end. Literally. If both people precast heal, it's really not worth fighting, and if your opponent is doing it, you shouldn't cede them the advantage of having a heal prepped, so it behooves you to precast heal as well until they stop precasting heal. It's pretty much the opposite of M.A.D. -- Mutually assured survival if both people prep heals. If both people are preping heals, they really might as well not be fighting, because nobody is going to run out of mana, and nobody is going to be able to do 150 dmg in 1.25 seconds.

[Freeza]

I disagree about a dexxer on a meddi fencer. The only difference would be armor and most medis roll in leather. with that said you are essentially the same build, one just has the use of magery.Both can heal using band aids, both can chug pots. I have seen medi dexxers beat dexxers because like you know the swing timer does not count while your moving, so this enables the meddi to distance himself from the dexxer and heal with magery as well. I think the meddi dexxer is the most viable template to just stay alive with

[Faust]

noxmonk,

This will be why you will never amount to anything too...

[Black&Blue]

No GHeal precasting? WTF is that? I, myself, do NOT do that. But, I couldn't care less if my opponent in duel, does. Theres a very simple, and effective way to work around a precasted gheal.

[Rheoric]

noxmonk,

This will be why you will never amount to anything too...

Wow. That's so arrogant I wish this was in the trash talk forum.

People like to have excuses for why they lose and as far as gaining respect from members of the UO PvP community goes: who could give a damn? This game is nearing 15 years old. Chances are players don't want to respect another player who bested them because it proves they're not as good as they thought.

[RoadKill]

It simply goes on until regs are fully consumed. Did you really outskill your opponet when you killed him without regs? No, you simply won the item pvp game which isn't a form of skill at all.

Actually, I consider resource management to be a major factor in skill. Knowing how to use your resources efficiently is very important.

[ClowN]

these self branded "duel rules" that i always see people talking about on these RUNUO servers are trash. field pvp is what makes UO fun. sitting around 1v1 dueling the same guy with restrictions on game play put into place only slows down pvp in my opinion. i see people bitch every day about how slow PVP is, but these are the same people who say your a newb if you use potions, or precast heal, or use a magic weapon, or magic item. PVP IS BORING BECAUSE YOU ARE TAKING ELEMENTS AWAY FROM THE GAMEPLAY. the best pvper will have a combination of the best skill, and the best equipment to kill. the only reason to limit a duel to no potions or gm weps only or whatever is because one of you is to broke to show up equiped. end of story. fuck duels and all these staff run "duel rules" tournys. everyone should just fight on the field like the REAL ULTIMA ONLINE was meant to be. bring your vanqs

[Michael Malloy]

You will not gain any respect from any decent pvp'er here if you break the rules that has been place since the very beginning days of UO. Your reputation among any decent pvp'er will simply be trash and nothing more.

And without respect from random anonymous people on a 500 year old game who you'll never meet face to face, what do you really have, anyway? Play to win.

[d'Troyes]

noxmonk,

This will be why you will never amount to anything too...

Did your daddy tell you this all the time growing up, Faust? Such an arrogant instigator!

Play to Crush! Play to Win!

[Faust]

Don't you just love those UOR scrubs?