Double Hit Decipher:

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Kaivan
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Kaivan »

I'm not saying that there was an extra value added to the person, I'm saying that the script itself was running twice, and that the second instance of the script would refer to the value of the first script to determine what number to initially use for the "time elapsed" portion of the second script. As for why it was done, I can only assume it was done to allow any wait period already accumulated to count towards a swing if the weapon you switched to was much faster than the previously held.
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Faust
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Faust »

Are you saying that everytime you equipped a weapon with an active delay the method for the equip delay inside the script would process? If this is the case you would be able to run it multiple times not just twice. You could arm/disarm every split second receiving swing after swing after swing in a machine gun phase by the time the first method would finish out. The only possible way this wouldn't be the case is if the script back checked for a previous value altering it after a second check. However, this would still re-create the effect that eventually removed the equip delay over time instead of simply resetting the delay and would require an extra value to be assigned to the mobile itself. The only other alternative is that this wasn't the case at all of course.

When analyzing the RunUO code it's not that far off from the demo code in this sense. There are two methods that alter your delay based on equipping and unequipping inside of the BaseWeapon.cs script. All it simply does is check if you have an active swing delay and if so it alters your delay based on the weapon delay at that moment in time. This re-creates the same effect inside of the demo and modern UO very precisely.

I'm just a bit confused by what you're saying in both posts at this moment. The first response sounded like the script would possibly assign an equip delay and resign the previous delay if attempted again. The second response sounds like the script would run the method multiple times, but if this is the case it would run it each and everytime you equipped a weapon unless there is a value to back check it against.

Kaivan
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Kaivan »

Faust wrote:Are you saying that everytime you equipped a weapon with an active delay the method for the equip delay inside the script would process? If this is the case you would be able to run it multiple times not just twice. You could arm/disarm every split second receiving swing after swing after swing in a machine gun phase by the time the first method would finish out. The only possible way this wouldn't be the case is if the script back checked for a previous value altering it after a second check. However, this would still re-create the effect that eventually removed the equip delay over time instead of simply resetting the delay and would require an extra value to be assigned to the mobile itself. The only other alternative is that this wasn't the case at all of course.

What I'm saying is that when a weapon is equipped, the swing delay script is started. If, at the time the script is started, there is a currently active delay (which would be from another instance of the script), the second instance of the script copies over that elapsed delay (lets say the delay was recorded in ticks). The script would then calculate the number of ticks that need to elapse before a swing with the new weapon can take place. On the next tick, when times are evaluated again, the first instance of the script would increment a tick, and should stop running, however, due to some unusual error in the code, the script instead marks the player as ready to swing and then stops itself. At the same time, the second script would increment the current delay (which is set to the delay from the last tick of the previous instance of the script) and would check to see if the number of ticks that have already passed is greater than the number of ticks required to swing the new weapon. If the number of ticks that have passed is greater than or equal to the necessary number of ticks to swing, the script sets the player as ready to swing and then stops itself. Otherwise, the script sets the number of ticks that have passed to zero and begins counting using the newly calculated total number of ticks necessary to swing.

Beyond that, there wouldn't be any ability to machine gun swings for one distinct reason, the action delay. Since, the assumption is that all of this happens on the server between the second to last and last ticks, all actions would need to take place on the server in under 0.25 seconds. While it is possible to grab and drop your weapon from your paperdoll to your paperdoll in under that time frame, it would not be possible to do so again due to the server side action delay of 1 second. Because of that delay, the limit of this particular functionality would indeed be two swings.

The unfortunate part is that we can't be very certain one way or another of exactly how the script was coded at the time.
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Eulogy
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Eulogy »

Sounds extremely stupid.

All this effort could have gone into something better for the whole server instead of only the PvPers.

All this implementation would do is further the gap between the elite PvPers and the farmers they prey upon..
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Faust
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Faust »

A double hit can only occur while you're standing still. What does the feature have to do with "preying on farmers" unless the farmer decided to run next to their killer to receive the deadly blows?

FYI, if you haven't noticed well over 90% of the fixes in the patch notes are not associated with pvp.

Eulogy
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Eulogy »

Faust wrote:A double hit can only occur while you're standing still. What does the feature have to do with "preying on farmers" unless the farmer decided to run next to their killer to receive the deadly blows?

FYI, if you haven't noticed well over 90% of the fixes in the patch notes are not associated with pvp.

Some farmers might as well be 'retarded' when some PKs attack them. With the disrupt delay, one PK could be disrupting while the other PK double swings/fast casts to kill the guy(s).

FYI, most PKers hunt people in groups of 2+ as you should know.

IMO, veterans = PKs, while non-veterans = farmers..

If an ability is "difficult" to perform, then veterans will have an easier time "performing" the ability compared to non-veterans.
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UnknownLord
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by UnknownLord »

FYI razor would fuck this in 2 seconds. Waste of thread.
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Faust
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Faust »

Razor "fucks" many accurate features making your post insignificant as always. The matter is era accuracy as always disregarding your personal bias towards the topic at hand. Again, you can only receive a double hit blow when standing next to your opponent making the tactic hardly easy to accomplish at all.

Eulogy
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Eulogy »

You stand next to your opponent anytime you play a melee dexer.

You pretty much don't have an option to do anything else but stand there when you're para'd.

You stand next to your opponent and hit attck last to steal their instahit.
Would hitting attack last mess up their double hit?
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Faust
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Faust »

Eulogy wrote:You stand next to your opponent anytime you play a melee dexer.

You pretty much don't have an option to do anything else but stand there when you're para'd.


The double hit actually benefits dexers greatly. A dexer has to be next to their opponent to fight making it highly possible for them to perform the tactic. Dexers typically swing 100% faster than a tank mage allowing them to receive more chances to attempt a double hit.

I see about 5-10% of the players that pvp not carry pouches. The majority of the population will always have one to counter para.

Eulogy wrote:You stand next to your opponent and hit attck last to steal their instahit.
Would hitting attack last mess up their double hit?


Yes, making someone wrestle would ruin a double hit. The way to get a double hit off is to wait 0.25s before equipping when your swing delay is about to elapse. However, here is the bad part about attempting this... If you're too slow you will wrestle wasting your swing as you mentioned. If you're too quick equipping the weapon your character will receive an equip delay resetting your swing delay back to where it was. That is why most people will simply use the other "technique" as mentioned in the article where a tank mage cycles his weapon every 2.5s to receive a hally swing.

Kafka118
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Kafka118 »

I find it difficult to understand how the double halbard hit remained for the most part undocumented and unmentioned in the last 12 years. If this move was truely being used (in my opinion) it would have been mentioned lots on stratics or a number of other UO related sites either as a

"WTF?!?! i just got double hally whacked" thread

or

"LoLoLoL i own joooo" thread.

How to execute the move may have been a trade secret and may have stayed that way; however you cannot hide the fact you're double hitting somone. Anyone being double hit will eventually start asking questions which will generate talk about the move and it's use.

This probably has nothing to do with anything and i'm just throwing out ideas so don't come down too hard on me :)

- Kafka

Eulogy
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Eulogy »

I don't see how double hit would benefit dexers at all, unless they are fighting a moron. Mages don't just stand next to dexers, and most people know to hit attack last the moment that weapon comes off.
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Faust
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Faust »

A double hit can occur with ANY weapon... This means that if you're good enough you could manipulate even a fast weapon such as a katana that swings slightly faster than one second... A halberd the slowest melee weapon can swing every 3 seconds. Dexers receive the ability of getting more frequent double hits than a tank mage could.

Jiggo
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Jiggo »

While implementation of this would be great for era accuracy..

These days, many of the "tricks" used back then are simply too easy to do these days. Especially if this was macroable in razor, it would be widely used by nearly every player. Any implementation of it would have to use a special formula with a random chance of it happening, or it would be widely exploited.

People know to much for their own good, especially with the mechanism for it being explain in this thread.

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Faust
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Re: Double Hit Decipher:

Post by Faust »

This feature was actually active prior to the patch that introduced the equip delay on this server several months ago. It worked pretty much exactly the way it has been described here. Trying to accomplish a double hit was pretty much damn near impossible in the older system, and it was extremely easy to counter someone trying to pull one off.

The swing is determined by a previous swing and equipping before the timer elapses. This pretty much makes it random during most occassions since the swing is based on your current stamina. A double hit was extremely hard previously before the equip delay being implemented. Now that the equip delay has been introduced doing a double hit would be twice as hard to perform since your delay would be reset when you screwed up. At least under the previous system you would still receive your first hit and not your second hit when screwing up. With the equip delay added now you would receive neither. The people that previoulsy played here with the old system before the equip delay knows how hard it was to actually pull a double hit off.

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