Stamina Loss and Swing TImer

[alatar]

I was dueling on the test server last night as well.. As far as any disruption pvp strategy goes, this new patch completely throws that whole strategy out.. Once this patch goes live i'll retire Wylan and I suppose just wait for short/long term counts to come in.. After that i'll just resort to tamer pking..

The way I look at it, this new "timer clock" forces you to stand still if you use your weapon as part of your strategy..

ouch.

[akeba]

I'm a little worried about how it will affect archery in field pvp.. heavy xbows just fire sooo slow.. it'll be impossible to chase someone and expect to be able to shoot them with it a second time.. or to try to evade a meleer and still be able to fight back.

[bOmb]

I honestly can say I dont remember a delay for archery. With that being said it completely throws off archery tank mages. There is no way of telling how much your hit does until a few tics later. Making your arch hit no different from explosion, and imposible to use archery to disrupt even if your standing still. I have never really seen anything like this, for the traditional tank though I dont see a problem with.

[BloodyBandage]

Was there really this much delay back in the day? I remember delay as well, just seems like a lot now (but it's been awhile ;) ). Like Bomb said its more of an Exp now. Going to have to come up with a new strategy and the kill shot will most likely have to be a spell now since gheal beats the bow shot in terms of speed. At least I think you can gheal as he's equipping for insta hit and beat the damage (anyone who tested more could probably answer that).

Possible combos: Precast Exp, Bow hit, drop exp, (bow hits 1 sec later, exp hits 1 sec after that). If close enough will disturb gheal. Then cast little spells to interrupt gheal, can't really equip bow for a hit though because it will allow a gheal to get off (assuming gheal beats the bow dmg). So archery users are forced to try to finish a half health opponent with 4th circle and below since equipping the bow runs the risk of gheal. Only way to equip bow again is if your opponent panics and tries to cure a poison, or is mini healing. Then you can equip it. If they just stay patient on spamming their gheal key they should be able to get it off at around 10-20% health. Getting kills is going to be nearly impossible with this.

Once again this is assuming gheal is faster than the bow dmg. If the bow dmg is slightly faster you can still equip the bow for kill shots, but if not its only purpose is in the very beginning of the fight.

Thoughts?

[Sweet Tooth]

I dont understand how people dont see this as a big change ... or say it doesnt effect mages much. I was dueling on test yesterday with wylan and hemperor... and i almost uninstalled uo. It slows down pvp even more than it alrdy was ... "forced lag" like wylan said (lol.. so true). After messing around on test for 30 min i was sooo bored i closed client.

new patch = slower pvp and makes mage duels/field fighting even more boring.
server is drifting away from the fast paced pvp we all loved , the pre ren insta hit feel, and god knows what else... because its "accurate".
GG



ST

[bOmb]

Yea my bad, I didnt even try out swords because I use archery so me stating that its nots changing anything might not be true.

It makes sense to me that archery has a hit delay, but it was pretty bad on the test center and after reading thier posts about "forced lag" it could be a serious problem.

Im running a freaking mac right now keeping me off the field and if this actually becomes and issue Ill see the brunt end of it. Anyway to see how long the delay actually was?

[Artemis]

I honestly can say I dont remember a delay for archery. With that being said it completely throws off archery tank mages. There is no way of telling how much your hit does until a few tics later. Making your arch hit no different from explosion, and imposible to use archery to disrupt even if your standing still. I have never really seen anything like this, for the traditional tank though I dont see a problem with.

Archery tank mages? They didnt exist, archery was nerfed when Dex monkey was introduced. Archery could never combo with magery that is a player run shard inconsistency that everyone is used to now. Only a dex archer was viable if you played them right.
Archery had a 6-7 second equip delay on every bow in this era, you could never effectively combo spells with archery hits, it was impossible.

[Silverfoot]

Dec 16, 1997
"Arrows now inflict the damage one second after the arrow is launched, instead of when the attack is launched."

Apr 28 2000: (Note, this is a UO:R change that documents a change to combat that was within T2A and prior)
"Players using melee weapons in combat will now hold their swing until their target is in range. Additionally, the timer that determines melee weapon swing times (combat timer) will now advance as the player is moving. Thus, melee weapon users will no longer be required to stop moving before swinging."

[/quote]

Since the patch notes specifically mention melee weapons, that means it does not apply to archery, right? Or, even though archery is a ranged weapon, is it clumped with melee weapons in this instance?

[Derrick]

Since the patch notes specifically mention melee weapons, that means it does not apply to archery, right? Or, even though archery is a ranged weapon, is it clumped with melee weapons in this instance?

This is an excellent observation. Archery is unique in that there are explicitly different timing issues like having to stop to fire. In retrospect, it is surprising that they would specifically say melee instead of weapon, is thaey had indeed meant all weapons. The tendency is to take patch notes literally.

[Mens Rea]

Nice changes ^^

[bOmb]

Archery tank mages? They didnt exist, archery was nerfed when Dex monkey was introduced. Archery could never combo with magery that is a player run shard inconsistency that everyone is used to now. Only a dex archer was viable if you played them right.Archery had a 6-7 second equip delay on every bow in this era, you could never effectively combo spells with archery hits, it was impossible.

Yea when I look back I dont remember seeing any tanks with archery. 6-7 second equip delay however makes no sense. It wouldnt even equip for 6-7 secs??!! Thats obsurd in 6-7 seconds someone could be half way across the shard. Did you mean hit delay or equip delay because Ive never really heard of a delay just for equiping a wep. Im going to stick with arch so Ill have to adjust.

[Derrick]

Yea when I look back I dont remember seeing any tanks with archery. 6-7 second equip delay however makes no sense. It wouldnt even equip for 6-7 secs??!! Thats obsurd in 6-7 seconds someone could be half way across the shard. Did you mean hit delay or equip delay because Ive never really heard of a delay just for equiping a wep. Im going to stick with arch so Ill have to adjust.

What he meant to say I believe is that the swing timer would start over when the bow is equiped, meaning it wouldn't fire when armed (no "insta-hit"). I have no information to verify this and it is not currently proposed to be treated this way. Currently the only special requirement for bows is that you can't fire while moving.

[platy]

If you dont move will it be an instahit then?

i like the change tbh and I am all for accuracy here, but it seems like all the patching is geared towards making pvp more accurate.. the fact is that pvp in t2a was, like alatar said; very slow

First we lost self-disrupts, then we lost intown PVP, next few patches slowed down the PVP style of the shard considerably- now your reducing the speed of PVP even more...
Again: I am all for accuracy.. BUT not at the expense of the shard!
Have only alatar and I noticed the lack of PVP on this shard? yet we keep patching/nerfing the pvpers!
The patches are fine, but i think PVP should be left alone- once we lost intown magic, the shard PVP died (literally).. nobody wants to make/has fun playing dexers (well i'm sure there's some people who do) but its not the point.. We lose players (PVPers mostly) everytime a new patch goes up.. Game-Rage, Demon, Zarq, now Deacon, Siv, Clyde not on too much, me practically..
All the players I mentioned BTW were some of the more active players on the shard for a time period.. now gone
again i'm all for accuracy but if by the time we're 100% accurate, and there's nobody to PVP, what would have been the point?

[~|~Damaja]

you guys. I see so many contradictory statements here. We have all been playing these pretend preUOR servers for so many years now most dont even remember how the pvp really was. This new patch is just 1 more step in the direction of how it really was. It actually was about disrupting with bigger spells and timing with melee hits. A mage never ran around holding a hally waiting for the swing timing to go off. The hally only came out after a combo or casting. Also remember that when t2a came out in 98 no one played a archer mage because of the slow ass timers. Get over archery as a mage. It sucked then so it should suck now. Leave it for townie warriors to use

There is still one more very crucial step to add to this pvp system before it is truley where it is supposed to be at and that last step is the cast recovery timer after a fizzled spell. I would wait for this to be added to test server before making anymore ridiculous statments like Alatar's. After this goes in the test server you will see alot shorter duels and the way it really actually was in 1998-2000

there is a reason its only on test server at this point of time because its not fully ready yet. If you want pretend preUOR combat and hybrid rules then there are plenty of other places to play. This server has always said to be true to t2a and to actually have a system that is the true pvp system that is legendary and talked about and missed so much, to have that here is amazing.

[bOmb]

I dont mind the changes at all, its just not something I really remembered. I read through the UOHoC chat log and under Player vs Player back in 1999, the first question being asked was when they were going to change the slow archery delays. So yea this makes complete sense to me now.