I am curious if the Paralyze spell in its current form is working properly with the era.
The way it stands now, when you throw a para it does 1 damage I believe unless that target has taken damage. I remember when this came out on OSI because it was a huge thing for dexxers to be able to start a bandage and have half a chance vs a hally mage.
What I don't remember is when casting para on a target who is casting a spell, didn't paralyze and still took your mana as if it did. On OSI I remember recalling a bunch of times, getting para mid cast, targeting the rune, and being paraed on the other side.
I have seen threads about the resist para, and I am no really refering to that. It was my understanding, if I casted para on someone it went, regardless if they were casting, but it never interrupted a cast.
Paralyze spell in its current form?
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Roser
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Re: Paralyze spell in its current form?
I did a quick forums search on this subject and found that there hasn't been much evidence put forward on how this spell should be acting in this situation (casting on a frozen target). Mostly player memories.
It does seem that paralyze is supposed to hit for one damage then freeze a target. UOSA does not currently have the one damage part.
If the paralyze spell did do one damage, then we could expect it to act just like the ghouls touch weapons do and interrupt frozen targets.
It does seem that paralyze is supposed to hit for one damage then freeze a target. UOSA does not currently have the one damage part.
If the paralyze spell did do one damage, then we could expect it to act just like the ghouls touch weapons do and interrupt frozen targets.
Re: Paralyze spell in its current form?
Right I remember blue mages would run with reds, and para players over and over...
the big thing was, even if you were casting recall you got frozen by the spell.
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Roser
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Re: Paralyze spell in its current form?
The last post in that thread by Kaivan...
I'm curious as to how this is handled in the demo...
He's going off information from 2003, which is a bit iffy, but if it lined up with the demo then it would seem correct.Kaivan wrote:Paralyze did not give 1 damage to the player during this time frame. The only difference is that paralyze was treated in the same manner as spells such as debuff spells with respect to receiving murder counts (logically, a person who is at full life but has a weaken effect on them would not be eligible for a murder count because they were at "full life" unless there was a special category for status effect that later included spells such as paralyze). To give some evidence to support this, here is a patch note from just after the AoS release that contains some information about changes to how resisting spells worked:Note that all offensive spells that did not directly damage the opponent as an effect of the spell (debuff spells and poison spells) were considered spells that could be eligible for a murder count, but were noted as non-damaging spells. This list also includes paralyze under the same category.3/10/03 Patch Update wrote:The Resisting Spells skill may only defend against non-damaging offensive spells (Blood Oath, Clumsy, Corpse Skin, Curse, Feeblemind, Mana Drain, Mana Vampire, Mind Rot, Pain Spike, Paralyze, Poison, Poison Field, and Weaken).
I'm curious as to how this is handled in the demo...
Re: Paralyze spell in its current form?
So here's the information that we do know regarding the paralyze spell stretching from the demo on forward.
In the demo, if a player has paralyze cast on them, the spell does several things. First, the length of time that the spell will paralyze the player for is determined using the following equation: (Skill level of caster / 10 + 1) * 2 + 5 resulting in a range of 7 to 29 seconds for the paralyze effect. Second, a resist spells check is done using static numbers, with a resulting chance to succeed ranging from anywhere between 0 to 100% chance (100% success rate is achieved at 45.0 displayed skill), with a successful resist check halving the duration (3 to 14 seconds). Next, the spell effectively hits the player for zero damage, causing other scripts to trigger that the player was hit by something. Again, this does zero damage, and doesn't make the player able to bandage themselves. Finally, the player is paralyzed for the duration determined by the skill level of the caster and the success or failure of the resist check. A few other "cleanup" items are done that we aren't certain about as part of setting up the paralyze after the paralyze is effect is applied, but in general, that is how the spell works on the demo. It should be noted that barring any interactions between the cleanup parts of the application of the paralyze spell and other spells, the interaction between the casting script and the paralyze spell indicates that if a spell is not interrupted as a result of being "hit" by the paralyze spell, the spell should continue to cast and remove the paralyze effect once it's done casting. Later, when the paralyze effect wears off, it will simply have no real effect, and alert the player that "You can move!", despite the fact that they were not paralyzed at the time.
Moving forward from the demo, we reach the February 24, 1999 patch that changed resisting spells. This also included a change to the behavior of the Mana Drain, Mana Vampire, Paralyze, and Poison spells (although the last is unlisted). Generally speaking, these spells became virtually unresistable with each being incredibly effective (the newsgroups are littered with players talking about the effects of these spells - mainly mana drain and vampire - and their implied uses as a result). The result is that two days later, on February 26th, a mini patch was rolled out that fixed the issues with mana drain and vampire (and was supposed to fix poison), which effectively locked their chance to be resisted at 80% (this is noted somewhere in an older thread about the subject on the forums) for all players. However, this set of hotfixes did nothing to the effectiveness of Paralyze, which remained virtually unresistable, causing players to use it as a guaranteed utility spell. This function seems to have remained true all the way until AoS was released, and its general utility in this way was paved the way to the next patch....
... that came as part of the May 25th, 1999 patch. Here the paralyze spell was modified such that a player who utilized the paralyze spell would be treated in the same manner as anyone who cast a debuff, poison, or damaging spell on another player. While we can't know the specifics of how this was actually achieved, in general we can say that paralyze was likely treated in much the same manner as debuffs and poison was on the demo (they are generally treated as "unhealthy" actions), and that paralyze was added to the list of unhealthy conditions that would continue to make all players who did damage or debuffed a player eligible for a murder count since the last time that the player was considered healthy (full life, no debuffs, etc.).
In general, these are the known changes that were made to the paralyze spell spanning from the demo to at least the end of T2A.
Finally, regarding the 1 damage paralyze to allow healing with bandages, there is no actual documentation to suggest exactly when this particular effect entered the game, however, what information does exist suggests that it was not something that was ever present during the T2A era (my own recollection is that it was added during mid-UOR around the same time that the PvP changes took place in mid to late 2001), specifically the changes to paralyze as an unhealthy action (unneeded change if it did damage), and the fact that a player is not disturbed while casting a spell (which would be a lot more likely with actual damage being dealt on the spell) point to the fact that at least during T2A, paralyze did not do damage. Of course, that does leave us with a question of when it did start doing damage, and I haven't been able to find any documentation one way or the other anywhere at all.
Also, regarding my last comment in the thread about non-damaging spells, I was citing any direct information that I could find on the subject, and that was the only solid information we had at the time. The post itself was actually made before we had access to the demo scripts themselves, and could actually look at the process that each spell went through. Since that time we've done that kind of investigation and found that even on the demo, a player does not actually take any damage from the paralyze spell.
In the demo, if a player has paralyze cast on them, the spell does several things. First, the length of time that the spell will paralyze the player for is determined using the following equation: (Skill level of caster / 10 + 1) * 2 + 5 resulting in a range of 7 to 29 seconds for the paralyze effect. Second, a resist spells check is done using static numbers, with a resulting chance to succeed ranging from anywhere between 0 to 100% chance (100% success rate is achieved at 45.0 displayed skill), with a successful resist check halving the duration (3 to 14 seconds). Next, the spell effectively hits the player for zero damage, causing other scripts to trigger that the player was hit by something. Again, this does zero damage, and doesn't make the player able to bandage themselves. Finally, the player is paralyzed for the duration determined by the skill level of the caster and the success or failure of the resist check. A few other "cleanup" items are done that we aren't certain about as part of setting up the paralyze after the paralyze is effect is applied, but in general, that is how the spell works on the demo. It should be noted that barring any interactions between the cleanup parts of the application of the paralyze spell and other spells, the interaction between the casting script and the paralyze spell indicates that if a spell is not interrupted as a result of being "hit" by the paralyze spell, the spell should continue to cast and remove the paralyze effect once it's done casting. Later, when the paralyze effect wears off, it will simply have no real effect, and alert the player that "You can move!", despite the fact that they were not paralyzed at the time.
Moving forward from the demo, we reach the February 24, 1999 patch that changed resisting spells. This also included a change to the behavior of the Mana Drain, Mana Vampire, Paralyze, and Poison spells (although the last is unlisted). Generally speaking, these spells became virtually unresistable with each being incredibly effective (the newsgroups are littered with players talking about the effects of these spells - mainly mana drain and vampire - and their implied uses as a result). The result is that two days later, on February 26th, a mini patch was rolled out that fixed the issues with mana drain and vampire (and was supposed to fix poison), which effectively locked their chance to be resisted at 80% (this is noted somewhere in an older thread about the subject on the forums) for all players. However, this set of hotfixes did nothing to the effectiveness of Paralyze, which remained virtually unresistable, causing players to use it as a guaranteed utility spell. This function seems to have remained true all the way until AoS was released, and its general utility in this way was paved the way to the next patch....
... that came as part of the May 25th, 1999 patch. Here the paralyze spell was modified such that a player who utilized the paralyze spell would be treated in the same manner as anyone who cast a debuff, poison, or damaging spell on another player. While we can't know the specifics of how this was actually achieved, in general we can say that paralyze was likely treated in much the same manner as debuffs and poison was on the demo (they are generally treated as "unhealthy" actions), and that paralyze was added to the list of unhealthy conditions that would continue to make all players who did damage or debuffed a player eligible for a murder count since the last time that the player was considered healthy (full life, no debuffs, etc.).
In general, these are the known changes that were made to the paralyze spell spanning from the demo to at least the end of T2A.
Finally, regarding the 1 damage paralyze to allow healing with bandages, there is no actual documentation to suggest exactly when this particular effect entered the game, however, what information does exist suggests that it was not something that was ever present during the T2A era (my own recollection is that it was added during mid-UOR around the same time that the PvP changes took place in mid to late 2001), specifically the changes to paralyze as an unhealthy action (unneeded change if it did damage), and the fact that a player is not disturbed while casting a spell (which would be a lot more likely with actual damage being dealt on the spell) point to the fact that at least during T2A, paralyze did not do damage. Of course, that does leave us with a question of when it did start doing damage, and I haven't been able to find any documentation one way or the other anywhere at all.
Also, regarding my last comment in the thread about non-damaging spells, I was citing any direct information that I could find on the subject, and that was the only solid information we had at the time. The post itself was actually made before we had access to the demo scripts themselves, and could actually look at the process that each spell went through. Since that time we've done that kind of investigation and found that even on the demo, a player does not actually take any damage from the paralyze spell.
Useful links for researching T2A Mechanics
Stratics - UO Latest Updates - Newsgroup 1 - Noctalis - UO98.org
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Re: Paralyze spell in its current form?
I believe near the end of T2A is when the 1 damage was implemented. Before a certain point (after the notoriety system was removed, but before UOR), paralyze was not considered an aggressive act and you had problems with people paraganking people in high end spawns (allowing the monsters to do the damage) as well as blues who would run 2-3 screens ahead of their red friends to paralyze unsuspecting farmers.
The paralyze spell changed a lot over the years. At one point paralyze on ghoul's touch weapons occurred before the weapon damage, making these weapons entirely useless for their intended purpose. At another point in time (UO launch), paralyze didn't break when the paralyzed target took damage, allowing players to PK with firefield (before fire field's standing-still damage nerf).
The paralyze spell changed a lot over the years. At one point paralyze on ghoul's touch weapons occurred before the weapon damage, making these weapons entirely useless for their intended purpose. At another point in time (UO launch), paralyze didn't break when the paralyzed target took damage, allowing players to PK with firefield (before fire field's standing-still damage nerf).
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Roser
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Re: Paralyze spell in its current form?
So Paralyze was treated as an "unhealthy" action toward a player and was changed along side the debuffs, why is it then that the debuffs will interrupt a spell both with and without the effect already on the target and paralyze doesn't?
If the zero damage debuffs are interrupting spells both with and without the effect already on the target, then should Paralyze be working the same way?
This is interesting, although I'm not clear on whether or not in the demo the paralyze spell acted as an interruption to someone casting a spell.Kaivan wrote:It should be noted that barring any interactions between the cleanup parts of the application of the paralyze spell and other spells, the interaction between the casting script and the paralyze spell indicates that if a spell is not interrupted as a result of being "hit" by the paralyze spell, the spell should continue to cast and remove the paralyze effect once it's done casting. Later, when the paralyze effect wears off, it will simply have no real effect, and alert the player that "You can move!", despite the fact that they were not paralyzed at the time.
If the zero damage debuffs are interrupting spells both with and without the effect already on the target, then should Paralyze be working the same way?
Last edited by Roser on Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Paralyze spell in its current form?
Debuffs weren't changed in terms of their ability to disrupt a spell until the UOR era, where only the first debuff would actually be applied, and subsequent debuffs would be cast, but have no effect. Prior to that, and on the demo as well, if a player was hit by a debuff spell (even one that gave the fizzle animation), they were effectively "hit" with a 0 damage spell. Paralyze replicated this by actually calling a function called doDamage, and passing a damage value of 0 with that function call, replicating the same functionality.Rose wrote:So Paralyze was treated as an "unhealthy" action toward a player and was changed along side the debuffs, why is it then that the debuffs will interrupt a spell both with and without the effect already on the target and paralyze doesn't?
Given what information we have, it should act as a low level chance to disrupt any player who is casting a spell in the same way as debuffs. Interestingly enough, under no circumstances should the spell actually paralyze the victim, as an interrupted spell would release the caster after the paralysis was applied, same as a spell that was successful.Rose wrote:This is interesting, although I'm not clear on weather or not in the demo the paralyze spell acted as an interruption to someone casting a spell.Kaivan wrote:It should be noted that barring any interactions between the cleanup parts of the application of the paralyze spell and other spells, the interaction between the casting script and the paralyze spell indicates that if a spell is not interrupted as a result of being "hit" by the paralyze spell, the spell should continue to cast and remove the paralyze effect once it's done casting. Later, when the paralyze effect wears off, it will simply have no real effect, and alert the player that "You can move!", despite the fact that they were not paralyzed at the time.
If the zero damage debuffs are interrupting spells both with and without the effect already on the target, then should Paralyze be working the same way?
Useful links for researching T2A Mechanics
Stratics - UO Latest Updates - Newsgroup 1 - Noctalis - UO98.org
Re: Paralyze spell in its current form?
Indeed. I'll try to find out exactly what our implementation for the spell currently is, and hopefully we'll be able to make the changes as part of our next patch.
Useful links for researching T2A Mechanics
Stratics - UO Latest Updates - Newsgroup 1 - Noctalis - UO98.org
Re: Paralyze spell in its current form?
Imagine a para spell that paralyzes. Who'd a thunk it!Abyz wrote:THIS IS EPIC
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nightshark
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Re: Paralyze spell in its current form?
The current implementation on paralyze on UOSA is how I always remembered it on OSI, from late T2A through UO:R. In fact the implementation on UOSA is far from the default of what RunUO has, RunUO by default allows you to para someone who is casting or otherwise frozen (chain paralysis), and does not do 1 damage.
Derrick patched the "already frozen" part in Patch 43:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1131&p=6729&hilit=paralyze#p6729
And "1 damage" in Patch 53:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1589&p=10463&hilit=paralyze#p10463
There is a usenet post here that makes note of the fact that you can not paralyze someone who is already casting a spell, dated 4/15/99: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... %5B1-25%5D
Regarding the 1 point of damage, I always thought this came with the patch to allow murder-reporting on players casting the paralyze spell (25 May, 1999). Since there were no further (documented) changes to paralyze between May 25, 1999 and the release of UO:R, my money would be on the fact that murder eligibility on this was not due to the spell being an "unhealthy action" but being based on 1 point of damage.
Derrick patched the "already frozen" part in Patch 43:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1131&p=6729&hilit=paralyze#p6729
And "1 damage" in Patch 53:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1589&p=10463&hilit=paralyze#p10463
There is a usenet post here that makes note of the fact that you can not paralyze someone who is already casting a spell, dated 4/15/99: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... %5B1-25%5D
Really hard to find more info on it.>1. Paralyze I. If you cast paralyze and target a person casting a
>spell, you'll not para him (that's fine), but you lose mana (not
>fine).
Regarding the 1 point of damage, I always thought this came with the patch to allow murder-reporting on players casting the paralyze spell (25 May, 1999). Since there were no further (documented) changes to paralyze between May 25, 1999 and the release of UO:R, my money would be on the fact that murder eligibility on this was not due to the spell being an "unhealthy action" but being based on 1 point of damage.
<green> grats pink and co. .... the 3 of you f---ing scrubs together can blow up a bard. IMPRESSIVE