Double hits occurr too often and easily

[iamantitype]

Just a couple thoughts...

To the argument of "people just didn't understand swing timers back in 99, therefore double hits didn't happen as often and weren't reported as widespread, although they did exist":
This is a ridiculous idea. I submit that 90% of the people doing double hits in-game right now do not actually understand our own swing timer, and that almost the same amount of people in 99 understood their swing timer as understand it here.
Point being, if double hits existed as they do in-game currently, it would have been widely reported and documented.

To all the people now claiming they remember, without a shadow of a doubt, that double hits existed in 1999:
Where were you before our current pvp patch went in and the double hit was discovered on test center? Why weren't there threads saying "Implement double hit!!! It's era accurate!!!"?

In my opinion, as a player from OSI era T2A, I'm not convinced this existed AT ALL in 1999 or any instance of OSI T2A, but because I'm only going by memory, I cannot say for sure. Going one step further, my memory is even stronger that the accidental/random double hits that dexxers are currently pulling off did not exist, and that the "charged" double hits that can be held and pulled off whenever you please did not exist either. Neither of these take any understanding of swing timers or anything beyond basic mechanics to pull off. You only have to be able to hit a couple keys and know how to count.

[Mikel123]

I submit that 90% of the people doing double hits in-game right now do not actually understand our own swing timer, and that almost the same amount of people in 99 understood their swing timer as understand it here

No way. We essentially have developers here explaining the swing timer on a daily basis. I'm not saying the majority of the shard understands it, but certainly a higher portion do here than in 1999. This is a pretty ridiculous claim.

if double hits existed as they do in-game currently, it would have been widely reported and documented.

This is a straw man. The entire point of this thread is that they occur in-game currently FAR MORE than they did historically.

Where were you before our current pvp patch went in and the double hit was discovered on test center? Why weren't there threads saying "Implement double hit!!! It's era accurate!!!"?

There are a ton of such threads. Here's a post from literally two years ago talking about the double-hit:
http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic. ... hit#p15454

And in fact, he's describing it just as it occurs here:

It also meant that if you were patient and held a swing tabbing and other difficult methods you could hit twice with your halberd with one animation

Specifically the tabbing part, which is causing all the panic here since that's what allows people to "hold" the double hit indefinitely.

[Roser]

+1 Mike

I actually tried to archive search my own double hit threads as well, as I had at least one major one. (that I think mike commented in lol). Couldn't find it. Trying to figure out how so refine a search to show only my own topics....

[Faust]

I tell him that I am sticking to what I agreed to, that I can't use magic on him, but I will on myself. He says something like "u will die anyway" and the fight is on. I put on reactive armor and put my hally on, timing it just right. <CRACK - CRACK> The dipshit almost dies from a carefully planned doublehit, and bolts for town and safety.

[iamantitype]

I stand corrected

[nightshark]

I honestly think "people didnt understand the timers" is thrown around too much. It's an easy answer to "why didn't people use this technique?". Double hitting at the moment can be achieved simply by tabbing out, you don't need to worry about any "precision timing". If that was the case in '99 then the average UO player IQ since '99 must have raised by 100.

The timers here aren't rocket science, it took me like an hour to figure out how the hally was working here, when I started back in feburary, and that was back when you had to stand completely still to make your hally refresh at all. Double hit was fairly obvious to work out and explain to people, and though I didn't completely grasp the concept of it at the time, I worked out within the first hour of the patch that you could tab out to "pause" your double hit and save it for later (not to mention it makes an incredible easy to execute double hit). In 12 months of T2A, noone worked that out.... really? (no, not really, it's rhetorical)

[Perception]

There is next to nothing (I've found nothing so far) in archived UseNet posts on groups.google.com relating to double hally hits. I've pulled tons on virtually every other subject that was a nuisance in game. People are instantly killed by accident with this, you would have thought there would be some noise about it back then.

I'm not saying it wasn't possible, but I'm seriously doubting how it's performed on this shard.

[Roser]

but I'm seriously doubting how it's performed on this shard.

Aye. Although there are elements of the double hit as seen on UOSA that coincide with the way it should be preformed in my opinion.

I suggest that there is a missing link, that being some kind of throttle for the double hit. Something OSI would have added into the swing timer code to make it less frequent. I would put forth the idea that OSI did a "quick fix" to their bugged combat code instead of recoding an entirely new combat system (which eventually happened in a later era's).

It is apparent that double hit cannot be simply removed without taking away the Insta hit first. So It would seem that this double swing dilemma, if its to be toned down to a reasonable state, is going to take some serious ingenuity and programming skill from the Big D.

[son]

Rose stop replying to every post.

[Derrick]

I have what seems like it might be a simple fix to this double hit bug. It is very preliminary and pretty much untested, but it's currently on Test Center. Please play with it and verify that it did not effect any other aspect of the weapon system. If this is the fix, which I'm hoping it is, it's as elegant as the rest of the insta-hit modifications.

There's not a lot of wiggle room in this system, as it's still 95% OSI Pre-T2A code. It took a lot of trial and error to get the insta-hit working properly and simply from the raw OSI Demo code, so I am hoping we can solve these problems in a simple way, as I am with the exception of this issue, very satisfied that what we have done is consistent with what changes OSI probably made between mid-1998 and Jan 1999.

[Roser]

This is why Derrick is the man.

All I gotta say is Fixed! Double hits can no longer be held, and they are a lot less frequent.

Successfully Throttled! Thank you Derrick!

[Psilo]

Not sure what year exactly but double hit certainly existed in t2a because I was standing outside of Delucia watching my friend perform it.

I don't know how it worked with warriors but I remember only seeing mages do it. Dexers were probably better off just hitting with their 100 dex. I don't believe it was as easy for warriors to do it as it currently is on UOSA.

Double hit existed, the question is are the current mechanics to go about doing it correct? Is there a bug we need that is missing that allows it to execute in a different way? Should warriors be able to double hit without taking their weapon on?


Mage double hits are balanced and can be avoided quit easily. Warriors on the other hand really can't in ways because they happen without even needing to do anything like a mage to prepare the "double hit".

[nightshark]

from the fighting i've done post patch, haven't seen any double hits performed the tank mage way. it sometimes seems like i have been double hit with a katana, but it might have been lag.

[Roser]

Nightshark, I tested this for derrick when it was on test. I was able to do Double hits (although much harder) the "mage way".

When this patch went live, I was unable to preform a double hit in any way... tried for hours... dunno what happened.

[KydVicious]

I've posted how it works and why it is broken, I don't like it either. Looping timer is not era accurate, if anything it should only be applying when going from disarmed -> armed. That makes double hits a lot more readable and era accurate than they are currently.

http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic. ... 7&p=193625&
Agree, totally NEA

With the new fix to swing on the run, double hits just got even more random than they were before.

Nightshark, as I rarely agree with anything you have to say...lol, I have to say that you are 100% correct on this. Double hit was technically a "glitch" as a result of bugged timer issue (a more detailed explanation was given, however, I'm not UO techno-geek savvy). There were numerous rants about it long ago. Many people liked it because it threw in an "X" factor to PvP, others disliked it because it offered just one more power-tool to the already "overpowered" sword tank template. It was a random event that really couldn't be relied upon, but when it did happen it tilted the scales in your favor quite a bit. It was not like it is here, dexxers could swing forever and a day and never seemed to get a double hit off, however, a tank could let loose a combo, insta-hit and the double hit would occur maybe 20% of the time. To my recollection it had something to do with the initial attack insta-hit timer or something but it certainly didn't work like it is here.

IMO it's just another "glitch" being passed off as era accurate to compensate for the de-bugging of the hally-machine gunning tactics that took so long to be fixed when it was readily apparent it was not T2A era accurate (I smell conspiracy). The side effect of this is that dexxers are now using it to their advantage as well, I know I am until it get's nerfed or possibly it may stay, I'm not really complaining as I do LOVE the hally on my dexxer, wrecking machine once you get the timing right. I have to say that I was on hiatus for a little bit and now I don't seem to be getting the double-hits on my dexxer so idk what's going on