UO Second Age

Kaivan wrote:Please refer to my comment in the thread linked by Majestic regarding whether this will be changed or not. Also, see this and this thread for discussion on the topic.

Thanks

I understand keeping the shard era accurate, but then shouldnt the duping bug be allowed?

Also, just because its Era Accurate doesnt mean it should be legal. Has anyone though of that????? For Gods sakes, macroing was era accurate, but it was illegal and you got banned for it. Duping was era accurate but you got banned for it. Why not make a freaking penalty for doing this? I dont understand the logic of the GMs here. I understand about era accuracy, and agree. But this is an exploit, and if we are going for TRUE era accuracy, then this exploit is bannable. Right?

Menkaure wrote:I understand keeping the shard era accurate, but then shouldnt the duping bug be allowed?

Also, just because its Era Accurate doesnt mean it should be legal. Has anyone though of that????? For Gods sakes, macroing was era accurate, but it was illegal and you got banned for it. Duping was era accurate but you got banned for it. Why not make a freaking penalty for doing this? I dont understand the logic of the GMs here. I understand about era accuracy, and agree. But this is an exploit, and if we are going for TRUE era accuracy, then this exploit is bannable. Right?

Gold duping is a ridiculous straw man argument, and completely unrelated to the LoS issue being discussed in this. Gold duping is not allowed for a simple reason: allowing it negates any attempts at economic management of the shard. The LOS issue, while irritating, does not create or place new items in the game; it does nothing more than cause the victim to get irritated at dying and forcing them to rez. Is it unpleasant? Sure... but its not comparable to a gold dupe bug either.

Macroing is a null argument as well; Kaivan and Derrick have both stated that if it was possible to (and it could be in the future), then a restricted set of available commands via razor, or no razor at all, will be allowed for connections. At this time, however, its not feasible, so macroing is here to stay at this time.

Arguing that because A happened, then B must happen doesn't work here unless you're talking directly related items; otherwise its nothing more than a silly straw man argument attempting to make a point that will be lost in the ether.

corruption42 wrote:

Menkaure wrote:I understand keeping the shard era accurate, but then shouldnt the duping bug be allowed?

Also, just because its Era Accurate doesnt mean it should be legal. Has anyone though of that????? For Gods sakes, macroing was era accurate, but it was illegal and you got banned for it. Duping was era accurate but you got banned for it. Why not make a freaking penalty for doing this? I dont understand the logic of the GMs here. I understand about era accuracy, and agree. But this is an exploit, and if we are going for TRUE era accuracy, then this exploit is bannable. Right?

Gold duping is a ridiculous straw man argument, and completely unrelated to the LoS issue being discussed in this. Gold duping is not allowed for a simple reason: allowing it negates any attempts at economic management of the shard. The LOS issue, while irritating, does not create or place new items in the game; it does nothing more than cause the victim to get irritated at dying and forcing them to rez. Is it unpleasant? Sure... but its not comparable to a gold dupe bug either.

Macroing is a null argument as well; Kaivan and Derrick have both stated that if it was possible to (and it could be in the future), then a restricted set of available commands via razor, or no razor at all, will be allowed for connections. At this time, however, its not feasible, so macroing is here to stay at this time.

Arguing that because A happened, then B must happen doesn't work here unless you're talking directly related items; otherwise its nothing more than a silly straw man argument attempting to make a point that will be lost in the ether.

Sorry, but I disagree. Thats the beauty of opinions. They scream out Era Accuracy on this shard and they are trying to be exact, which I respect, and have always respected. I havent gotten killed in a tower or anything either, but reading this, it makes me think its just a silly stupid exploit that they can easily make a rule on but wont. MAybe duping was a bit of a bad example, let me try to explain further. My entire point, was that this is STILL an EXPLOIT. Therefore, why not have other exploits be allowed as well? You cant pick and choose. You say dupings completely different, but technically, when we get down to basics, is it that different? Its an exploit. Im not a Razor wiz, or an exploit genius, but lets just say theres an exploit that allows you to kill someone in town without taking a count. Wouldnt that be fixxed right away? Or, at least, make it a banable offense? Why is this any different? Quite frankly, the bottom line is that ALL exploits should be banable. Why? Because they are EXPLOITS. Keep them in the game, if you want era accuracy, then sure, keep it. But, dont let people exploit the game and then go "Well thats era accurate" Because, and you know this is true, if that were to happen back in 1999, that ban hammer would fly faster then an eagle after a mouse.

Yeah, but if duping were possible, more than two people would be bidding 50+ million gold for a pair of shoes.....

Duping is, and will always be, an exception to any rule on any shard. It is completely game-breaking and there's no other way to view it. So toss the whole "duping" out the window and dispense with that topic. It simply is entirely illogical.

As far as other exploits being allowed in-game, there are MANY exploits from the era that are allowed in this game and have not be "fixed".

Ever used the dismount/remount to refresh your mounts Stamina?

Ever used a table to bump you to the roof of your castle/keep?

Ever used the same LoS to teleport into the ocean to secret rooms?

I could go on all day listing "exploits" (per OSI's definition) that are allowed on this server.

The Policies of OSI determined what was an exploit or not. This shard absolutely does not adhere to all of the Policies of OSI....or we'd have Trammel.

Light Shade wrote:...or we'd have Trammel.

NEA.

Trammel had 0 to do with Policy, but thanks.

So we leave in exploits because they are "era accurate," but then we cherry pick which of these "era accurate" exploits will be allowed and which won't.

Yet when we try to have exploits banned we are told they have to stay because they are "era accurate" and no further discussion can be had. That makes no sense.

The issue is one of logic... Exploit A does not equal Exploit B. Its as simple as that. Not all exploits are created equal, and by that very definition you can't say because LoS exploits exist, gold duping must -- or any other substitute for duping. They are not the same issue, they do not effect the same things, and they are therefore judged independently for their own merit. Thats why its a silly straw man argument, and just spinning wheels uselessly. Discuss an issue of its own merit; there's no reason to bring other unrelated issues into it -- because they're unrelated. It does nothing but weaken the argument, IMO.

Light Shade wrote:
As far as other exploits being allowed in-game, there are MANY exploits from the era that are allowed in this game and have not be "fixed".

Ever used the dismount/remount to refresh your mounts Stamina?

Ever used a table to bump you to the roof of your castle/keep?

Ever used the same LoS to teleport into the ocean to secret rooms?

I could go on all day listing "exploits" (per OSI's definition) that are allowed on this server.

And all of these are issues that should be changed or fixed. I bet if a poll were to go up 90% of the shard would want these including the LOS bug fixed. I never saw someone hop off their horse, say all follow me, and hop back on and keep going back in the day. It's beating a dead horse really. Those that run the shard don't care that we despise these bugs. They will pick era accurate bugs they think are best for the shard, even if they aren't. Same thing with the full stables everywhere, afk reg buying due to low spawning regs on vendors, and monsters attacking through house walls.

Era Accuracy vs Legalities now thats an argument.
Who constitutes what is illegal in game?

archaicsubrosa77 wrote:Era Accuracy vs Legalities now thats an argument.
Who constitutes what is illegal in game?

It's not an argument at all. They're 2 different subjects. One is mechanics; one is policy. And as far as who constitutes what is illegal in game; the GM's and shard staff. This really isn't a difficult issue, I don't get why people act so obtuse on these forums about it.

So If I found an exploit that lets me res in a house and then go loot said house, this is just an exploit and not something banable, thats what Im hearing right?
Exploits are not banable, except for duping then, correct?

By the way, is the dismounted horse "all follow me" really an exploit? (by the way, horses didnt get fatigued that quick back in the day, im 100% positive of that, and I dont care what rule states what, it didnt happen that fast).

Regardless, my point is, if I find an exploit that lets me ressurect my character in a strangers house and then I go loot tha thouse, your saying I would not be banned because its the same thing as killing people in towers, right? Gotcha.

If its a policy issue, then its valid to debate it since the point of this forums is Suggestions.

If its an era accuracy issue, then duping has to be included as well.

Pac wrote:If its an era accuracy issue, then duping has to be included as well.

I love how you keep saying this like its a fact when it absolutely is not.