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Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:01 pm
by Kraarug
Here's some background information from the developers at the time...
January 28, 1999, #straticshoc on irc.stratics.com wrote:Rainman - *KurokoOfBon* Are there any plans for making mages more foritfied versus attack? The new changes (and addition of another battle damage modifier) make mages really vulnerable. Perhaps via tailoring?
DesignerD - We don't want more fortified pure mages. Mages should be easy to kill--it's only fair, since they are devastaingly powerful. However, we will be continuing to examine spells such as reactive armorto ensure that they are worthwhile
DesignerD - Just to make clear, for poor AlienA who is now getting accused of all sorts of things--no, we didn't mean that she uses UOE.
EVERYONE has a uoreport.log file.
http://uohoc.stratics.com/logs/1999-01-28-pub.shtml
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:05 pm
by Kraarug
Faust wrote:It is the default code in the RunUO distro package that has been verified on the current UO servers... Again, I have said this many many many times here previously... I'm tired of having to repeat myself over and over and over. How many times does someone have to say the same thing for you to understand it? Seriously, man.
Look, that's RunUO... that's not an Era source.
Where is the delay defined?
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:19 pm
by Faust
"It is the default code in the RunUO distro package that has been verified on the current UO servers."
I told you it's the same as the equip delay, which resets the delay according to the weapon.... I don't know how much of your ignorance I can stand. This is utterly getting sickening discussing something with you. I would have more substance coming out of a toddler being able to follow a conversation more thoroughly.
What the hell does that comment from DD have to do with anything here? Mages were able to wear platemail before this... That has to be one of the most useless pieces of information that you have placed into this thread. I am seriously regretting discussing any of this with you. You obviously have no clarity or understanding of the major changes that shifted from the pre-t2a to t2a era.
Edit:
Actually, I am done discussing anything with you after that grace of ignorance brought about in this thread. Until you can grasp or even comprehend a fraction of both era's involving the changes I won't discuss it with you any further. You are simply wasting my time with your ignorance. I am not here to teach you about the history of Ultima, learn it yourself.
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:24 pm
by Orsi
Faust, everyone was a feared PK on their respective server back in the old days, didn't you know? And also, the arm/unarm was a feature implemented in the official client when T2A came in, the era which this entire server is based off of.
Sorry, what I meant to say was I tried UOE/UOA to see what they were, but never USED them to compliment my playing.
RunUO will never be a verified source of information of what actually was implemented on the official servers. They did not have access to the original code from the development team, therefore it is not considered absolute.
You are very adamant about a feature which is entirely debatable, requires much effort to implement correctly, and brings about minimal improvement (if any) to PvP.
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:27 pm
by Kraarug
Faust wrote:"It is the default code in the RunUO distro package that has been verified on the current UO servers."
I told you it's the same as the equip delay, which resets the delay according to the weapon.... I don't know how much of your ignorance I can stand. This is utterly getting sickening discussing something with you. I would have more substance coming out of a toddler being able to follow a conversation more thoroughly.
Keep your rants to yourself and stick to the facts. It's that kind of banter that causes Derrick to delete posts and brings the argument off of center. Let's keep it civil.
So.. using that code I could easily use it to support my claim that OSI, when fixing the problem on 2.26.99, fixed it by using their elaborate stamina based timer.
After all, why wouldn't they?
Your post was pointless and so are your personal attacks.
It still goes back to the weak case you present. The source of your 2 second delay is flawed and you can provide no further research to back it up.
This flawed mechanic should be removed and the timers based on the well documented attack speed formula. Your 'new' bug didn't exist after the 2.2.6.99 fix.
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:33 pm
by Faust
Scythe wrote:Faust, everyone was a feared PK on their respective server back in the old days, didn't you know? And also, the arm/unarm was a feature implemented in the official client when T2A came in, the era which this entire server is based off of.
Sorry, what I meant to say was I tried UOE/UOA to see what they were, but never USED them to compliment my playing.
RunUO will never be a verified source of information of what actually was implemented on the official servers. They did not have access to the original code from the development team, therefore it is not considered absolute.
You are very adamant about a feature which is entirely debatable, requires much effort to implement correctly, and brings about minimal improvement (if any) to PvP.
Wrong. The arm/disarm feature was included with the 800x600 client introduced in mid '99. RunUO code being verified on current UO servers is an extremely valid source. This is most definitely the case when it involves a fundamental game mechanic such as a weapon delay. The equip delay was patched in '97 and was verified to still exist to this very day. Many of the fundamentals are still present in the UO code today. You should learn some facts before replying next time.
What effort involving implementation are you talking about? It ALREADY exists here. Where have you been son? It took me a matter of a few minutes to code. You act like it's a HUGE project...
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 2:42 pm
by RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR
Lol sorry I became sort of juvenile on this thread, felt it was going nowhere so I decided to have some fun with it.
Anyways I feel as if I have stated Cortez has no evidence and nothing else needs to be said, this thread should really cease until further evidence is brought up, instead of repeatedly criticizing spurious evidence of a feature everyone knows about.
Anyways I realize I sound a lot like Faust and that is because what he states is logical.
I feel 2 second hally hits have the greatest chance of being accurate, as apposed to the old way of receiving the active delay of the equipped weapon, that is what Cortez is proposing in its place right, or does he have another interpretation of the 99' patch note stating that a bug for making weapons hit faster than they should is fixed.
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:04 pm
by Faust
You haven't missed anything RAR... This thread has went aboslutely no where with the same re-run garbage that Cortez continues to throw out there. He still has yet to provide any evidence for what the disarm delay should be. The article on stratics is STILL the only source behind the delay.
The disarm/unequip delay for weapons didn't exist prior to the patch in February of 1999. The delay has been confirmed and validated to be a proper function on the OSI shards. This means that the delay was introduced sometime after the demo, which was compiled in August of 1998 all the way up to now. The only mention of ANY disarm delay is in the source that I provided. Until another source is presented this delay will not be changed. No one in their right mind would swap the only source that you have for the function ,and implement some random function based on absolutely nothing.
I am no longer going to discuss anything with Cortez until he grasps or even slightly understands the eras in general that he is discussing. It is simply just a huge waste of time trying to discuss something with someone that never actually played in an era that requires a tutor lesson on it to even keep up in a conversation about it.
The facts will continue to remain until evidence is provided on this topic. Substituting something, however vague that might even be, is not worth being replaced by nothing. That is the bottom line and it will not change.
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:12 pm
by Orsi
If you didn't use a 3rd party app it's no wonder that you don't know about it. There were no decent PVPer's that didn't use a 3rd party utility back then. The beneficial factor for you to use it without an arm/disarm macro would simply not exist.
You said it never existed during T2A and thus I wouldn't of used it without UOE/UOA. My timeline was off, but never the less, I did use it.
RunUO code being verified on current UO servers is an extremely valid source. This is most definitely the case when it involves a fundamental game mechanic such as a weapon delay. The equip delay was patched in '97 and was verified to still exist to this very day. Many of the fundamentals are still present in the UO code today. You should learn some facts before replying next time.
No, it isn't. RunUO does not = Official UO 98-00. It may EMULATE a lot of things correctly NOW, but that does not mean it is a valid source.
In fact, Derrick has stated many times about the RunUO not being correct:
http://forum.uosecondage.com/viewtopic. ... nuo#p13912.
Actually look through this here:
http://forum.uosecondage.com/search.php ... mit=Search
Faust wrote:What effort involving implementation are you talking about? It ALREADY exists here. Where have you been son? It took me a matter of a few minutes to code. You act like it's a HUGE project...
Everything, the effort it takes to research, prove and code. So far, you've assumed this 'not a bug' of a Halberd hitting in 2 seconds was fact from speculation of previous journal entries, then you use RunUO, a user-created application to emulate a UO server, as a source of valid proof. Look at your original post in this thread. That is A LOT of effort.
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:17 pm
by Faust
"It is the default code in the RunUO distro package that has been verified on the current UO servers."
Did you fail to read this previous comment that was posted multiple times involving the disarm/unequip delay Scythe?
Hint: Notice the bolded words!?!?
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:36 pm
by Orsi
Faust wrote:"It is the default code in the RunUO distro package that has been verified on the current UO servers."
Did you fail to read this previous comment that was posted multiple times involving the disarm/unequip delay Scythe?
Hint: Notice the bolded words!?!?
What don't you understand? I'm not talking about Equip/Unequip macro accuracy, I'm talking about your insistence on thinking RunUO as a source of evidence to prove something towards your 2-sec Halberd swing.
The fact that you keep repeating:
"...has been verified on the current UO servers..." would mean a lot if this were a modern UO shard, but as it isn't, it doesn't.
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:41 pm
by Faust
Scythe wrote:The fact that you keep repeating: "...has been verified on the current UO servers..." would mean a lot if this were a modern UO shard, but as it isn't, it doesn't.
It MATTERS a lot when the ONLY mention of a disarm/unequip delay in the history of UO is in a stratics article listing the addition of that delay in February '99 of the era that we ARE replicating. Try learning the concept of reverse engineering to understand the significance behind something like this.
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:43 pm
by Kraarug
Faust, you’re abusive tactics only work on the weak. Keep it up and you’ll be the single most important factor that drives new and current players and their contributions away.
As for me, I am aware of your intimidate, bully, attempt to confuse and outlast modus operendi and it doesn’t bother me.
I challenged you to back up your source and you can’t do it.
Rather, in response, you state you require me to try to disprove a narrow parameter of your whole case when the rest of the case has been rebuffed. Nice try but it’s no dice.
You get angry because I refuse to let you try to overrun and confuse the topic with your personal attacks and conjecture. An example? Accusing me of not knowing the era.
The fact is, it’s all I know of UO. I certainly was not a noob. I was the co-GM and eventually GM of TKF of Chessy, one of the largest guilds on that shard in 1999. We met in March of 2000 in Lexington, KY where most of us quit in response to UO:R. I didn’t get there by being an idiot.
You charge me with making a mistake with my recollection of poison and you are right, I didn’t remember using a 2 handed weapon but I stand corrected. As far as the heal-through-poison issue, I thought the mechanics on the shard was UO:R but when I tested it again I saw that I was mistaken.
Please, I didn’t play UO from T2A on no I never PvPed in UO:R. I tried a player run shard in 2004 for a week and didn’t get back into UO until I found this place.
Please keep the discussion civil and speak to the points and not the people.
This may have worked in getting this bugged theory implemented, I’m assuming that you tried to plow through other members of your team too, but your case has too many hole to stand wider criticism.
I honestly do not know why Derrick allowed this flawed mechanic in the server anyway.
I certainly hope that your behavior is considered and eventually your contributions curtailed. I suspect that a great many players here would not miss you. Nor would they miss me and why would they?
I’m simply trying to get to the bottom of a mechanic that exists here that we can find no collaborated research on.
That’s enough in your eyes to try to attack me. That’s pathetic.
Stay on topic.
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 3:47 pm
by Faust
Faust wrote:
The disarm/unequip delay for weapons didn't exist prior to the patch in February of 1999. The delay has been confirmed and validated to be a proper function on the OSI shards. This means that the delay was introduced sometime after the demo, which was compiled in August of 1998 all the way up to now. The only mention of ANY disarm delay is in the source that I provided. Until another source is presented this delay will not be changed. No one in their right mind would swap the only source that you have for the function ,and implement some random function based on absolutely nothing.
I am no longer going to discuss anything with Cortez until he grasps or even slightly understands the eras in general that he is discussing. It is simply just a huge waste of time trying to discuss something with someone that never actually played in an era that requires a tutor lesson on it to even keep up in a conversation about it.
The facts will continue to remain until evidence is provided on this topic. Substituting something, however vague that might even be, is not worth being replaced by nothing. That is the bottom line and it will not change.
Re: Insta Hit, Weapon Mechanics, and much more...
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:25 pm
by Orsi
Faust wrote:Faust wrote:
The disarm/unequip delay for weapons didn't exist prior to the patch in February of 1999. The delay has been confirmed and validated to be a proper function on the OSI shards. This means that the delay was introduced sometime after the demo, which was compiled in August of 1998 all the way up to now. The only mention of ANY disarm delay is in the source that I provided. Until another source is presented this delay will not be changed. No one in their right mind would swap the only source that you have for the function ,and implement some random function based on absolutely nothing.
Why do you keep repeating this bullshit about a disarm/unequip delay as the proof of your 2 second Halberd hits? That doesn't prove anything but a delay from unequiping...