Ghosting. Multiple accounts. Crutch for bad pks?

[valheru]

It is an exploit of the game mechanics and the unique rules of UOSA. Justify it and attack those that are against it all you'd like, the plain and simple fact is that is an exploit and clearly breaks the game's risk v. reward structure.

Explain how it is an exploit of the game mechanics. Ghosting people is a strategy that goes back to 1997, also, people could easily multiclient during t2a.

this is not an exploit. this is how the game WAS in t2a. people DID multiclient/ghost during t2a, it was totally possible, it wasn't a cheat, and you couldn't be banned for it.

the fact is, there is a game mechanic that you do not like because it gives people an advantage against you. nothing is stopping you from putting your own ghost in your hunting locations in order to see whether or not you are being ghosted. sounds like you are just being outplayed.

you're being outplayed by a t2a accurate system and you're upset. this forum is for T2A accuracy suggestions only. please, stick to those.

using your mentality, i can say that NOBODY had a good enough connection to run as fast as they do here on horses, and are thus EXPLOITING a game mecahnic when they run away on a mount. should we also get rid of mounts? (this is why other accurate servers got rid of mounts)

as much as you cry and whine, this will never change in your favor. you're just wasting your time.

[Kraarug]

Maybe uses like 'Ghosting" is one of the reasons why OSI did not condon multi-clienting. It creates these issues where players can operate with little to no risk doing things that were designed to have higher risk such as PKing.

Multi-clienting was feasable and I certainly used it during the era. Personally, I will never advocate for the removal of multi-clienting. I think it's benefits and rapant use are just too powerful to eliminate.

So, as I've said, the problem I see is the use of ones alt to perform risk free recon. That is the ONLY thing that needs to be addressed here.

Simply stated, UOSA should develop a response to a problem that the shard is seeinging concerning the ability for players to park unattackable and difficult to detect ghosts at locations where other players go to hunt for the express purpose to reduce or eliminate risks for alt characters to player kill.

Now, to address your post:

It is an exploit of the game mechanics and the unique rules of UOSA. Justify it and attack those that are against it all you'd like, the plain and simple fact is that is an exploit and clearly breaks the game's risk v. reward structure.

Explain how it is an exploit of the game mechanics. Ghosting people is a strategy that goes back to 1997, also, people could easily multiclient during t2a.

This is an exploit of the ability to view multiple parts of the world without risk of loss to the viewer "ghost". That ghost can not be attacked or forced to leave by any means available to another player. This was not part of the game's design.

By even the most conservative definitions, this ability is clearly an exploit.

this is not an exploit. this is how the game WAS in t2a. people DID multiclient/ghost during t2a, it was totally possible, it wasn't a cheat, and you couldn't be banned for it.

I was personally jailed twice by OSI for multi-clienting. A source of additional income to my small military salary was to macro and sell accounts. I could make a 3xGM in about a week on OSI and I'd sell them on eBay. I'll work a little later to show that OSI's policies were against it.

UOSA's policy is not against multi-clienting for good reason. Keep in mind, UOSA aims to replicate the mechanics of the era and bring in bugs and 'features' that are shown to be beneficial or fun. Ghosting is neither benefical or fun.

The only issue in modern day UO is the exploit of ghosting and thus, is the only thing I'd like to see Derrick address.

the fact is, there is a game mechanic that you do not like because it gives people an advantage against you. nothing is stopping you from putting your own ghost in your hunting locations in order to see whether or not you are being ghosted. sounds like you are just being outplayed.

Being out exploited is not being out played.

The truth of the matter is that ghosting has very little impact on my personal game or game play. However, I know it to be wrong and it detracts from the shards growth.

You are foolish, and certainly shows your character, if you assume that everyone is motivated by self interests.

You are correct, I can place my own ghosts in areas and do the same thing however it does not remedy the situation. Ghosting, essentially, denies others the use of an area. Placing an opposing ghost there does nothing to detract or eliminate the ability for an assaulting player to gather and use risk free recon.

This is one of the reasons why ghosting for this purpose is an exploit. There's nothing a player can do to really counter it.

you're being outplayed by a t2a accurate system and you're upset. this forum is for T2A accuracy suggestions only. please, stick to those.

These fourms are for vetting as well. That's exactly what I am doing. I am working to vet the reason why something must be done.

using your mentality, i can say that NOBODY had a good enough connection to run as fast as they do here on horses, and are thus EXPLOITING a game mecahnic when they run away on a mount. should we also get rid of mounts? (this is why other accurate servers got rid of mounts)

A connection is not relevant to a game mechanic. OSI designed horse to run at a certain rate, and Derrick has replicated that mechanic.

You're comparisons are incomplete and illogical. Fail.

as much as you cry and whine, this will never change in your favor. you're just wasting your time.

That's not exactly true. The requested adjustment may never happen if I continue to request it or make my case. It is certain though, that if one does not state their case and logic that their hopes may never be realized.

I ask Derrick to consider the case I've presented along with others and to make his decision. I'm fine either way but at least I've tried.

[Biohazard]

I ask Derrick to consider the case I've presented along with others and to make his decision. I'm fine either way but at least I've tried.

I approve this message.

[Duke Jones]

I ask Derrick to consider the case I've presented along with others and to make his decision. I'm fine either way but at least I've tried.

I approve this message.

Me too.

[valheru]

This is an exploit of the ability to view multiple parts of the world without risk of loss to the viewer "ghost". That ghost can not be attacked or forced to leave by any means available to another player. This was not part of the game's design.

By even the most conservative definitions, this ability is clearly an exploit.

The game was DESIGNED to be able to view other players as a ghost. This is what people are doing.

You need to provide proof that:

A) multi clienting was ILLEGAL. Whether it was on one computer or two computers side by side, you have to PROVIDE PROOF that OSI banned people for playing two accounts at once. I used two accounts at once, and i was NEVER banned. Period. It's T2A accurate.

B) you need to provide proof that being able to view other players as a ghost was not T2A accurate. i'm FAIRLY certain that i was able to view other players RISK FREE as a ghost when I played during T2A, on multiple clients.

Just because people use the game mechanics to their advantage, you claim it's an EXPLOIT. It's called being good at the game. Do you understand the DIFFICULTY that it will cause derrick to program some sort of system in so that if you have multiple ghost clients you cant use one of them to view other players? That will be so fricken complex that it will be a COMPLETE waste of his time. There are much important issues, such as ERA ACCURATE ISSUES.

This is a thread about the blues of the server crying about PKs. It's the main reason ANTI PK changes were adopted by OSI such as TRAMMEL. I hope that derrick does not follow the path of trammel.

Stop crying about era accurate issues, and play the game.

[Duke Jones]

A) multi clienting was ILLEGAL. Whether it was on one computer or two computers side by side, you have to PROVIDE PROOF that OSI banned people for playing two accounts at once. I used two accounts at once, and i was NEVER banned. Period. It's T2A accurate.

B) you need to provide proof that being able to view other players as a ghost was not T2A accurate. i'm FAIRLY certain that i was able to view other players RISK FREE as a ghost when I played during T2A, on multiple clients.

A) I believe this is the same issue as the multiboxing problems in other MMOs such as WOW. And I only assume that in a standard subscription-based MMO the company's policy is "hey if you want to pay for X many acccounts, fair enough"

Since this is not a pay-to-play game, we see some fuzziness in policy for accounts. And really, the only way I see to get around this is for 1 free account and donators get more than one account, and very few people would like that.

B) There's a difference in being able to see players as ghosts and EXPLOITING that ability to take advantage and deteriorate gameplay and the risk vs. reward mechanic of the game.

The ability to HAVE gold is not the same as exploiting the ability too have gold and dupe it.

[alatar]

A) multi clienting was ILLEGAL. Whether it was on one computer or two computers side by side, you have to PROVIDE PROOF that OSI banned people for playing two accounts at once. I used two accounts at once, and i was NEVER banned. Period. It's T2A accurate.

B) you need to provide proof that being able to view other players as a ghost was not T2A accurate. i'm FAIRLY certain that i was able to view other players RISK FREE as a ghost when I played during T2A, on multiple clients.

A) I believe this is the same issue as the multiboxing problems in other MMOs such as WOW. And I only assume that in a standard subscription-based MMO the company's policy is "hey if you want to pay for X many acccounts, fair enough"

Since this is not a pay-to-play game, we see some fuzziness in policy for accounts. And really, the only way I see to get around this is for 1 free account and donators get more than one account, and very few people would like that.

B) There's a difference in being able to see players as ghosts and EXPLOITING that ability to take advantage and deteriorate gameplay and the risk vs. reward mechanic of the game.

The ability to HAVE gold is not the same as exploiting the ability too have gold and dupe it.

qft

[valheru]

B) There's a difference in being able to see players as ghosts and EXPLOITING that ability to take advantage and deteriorate gameplay and the risk vs. reward mechanic of the game.

The ability to HAVE gold is not the same as exploiting the ability too have gold and dupe it.

HORRIBLE comparison. You're comparing viewing players as a ghost to DUPING GOLD? SERIOUSLY? jeeze man.

You dont think the designers of the game knew that viewing players as a ghost could be used as a sneaky advantage for pkers? That's the main reason why you can toggle between a visible ghost and a non visible ghost. If the designers didnt want to give you the opportunity to "exploit" this, then you wouldn't be able to be invisible, or you wouldnt be able to move around, or you wouldnt be able to see players.

and dont say, well, they didnt anticipate 3 clients at once. that's like saying, they didnt anticipate fast connections, and they didnt anticipate 3rd party programs. it's not a game mechanic, period.

There are ways to battle those who ghost. Ghost yourself, it's not that hard, it's very easy. Try it someday.

people need to learn how to overcome things instead of just complaining about them. sheesh

[Kraarug]

This is an exploit of the ability to view multiple parts of the world without risk of loss to the viewer "ghost". That ghost can not be attacked or forced to leave by any means available to another player. This was not part of the game's design.

By even the most conservative definitions, this ability is clearly an exploit.

The game was DESIGNED to be able to view other players as a ghost. This is what people are doing.

Playing as a ghost is not an exploit by itself. Playing as a ghost for the purpose of gathering risk free recon so another character controlled by the same player is an exploit of multi-clienting and UOSA rules. It's pretty clear.

You need to provide proof that:

A) multi clienting was ILLEGAL. Whether it was on one computer or two computers side by side, you have to PROVIDE PROOF that OSI banned people for playing two accounts at once. I used two accounts at once, and i was NEVER banned. Period. It's T2A accurate.

What program did you use to run your multi-clients? Was that program approved the OSI?

No program that allow a player to run multiple clients on the same computer was approved and if a player was suspected of using these programs they were jailed and or banned. It's pretty clear in the era EULA.

That's air tight my friend making your request for B) illrelevant.

UOE had many options, fast walk being one of them. It was 'era accurate' and many people who, I assume you would called good at the game, used that program. Do you see that feature reproduced here?

So, enough with your bullshit.

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Point is Multi-Clienting is not the issue as it is allowed by UOSA.  OSI did NOT allow it and would have deemed it an exploit.

Here on UOSA we have a condition where certain players abuse and exploit Derricks generous policy of allowing 3 accounts AND multi-clienting.  

Most of us agree that 3 accounts AND multi-clienting is a good thing.

Most of us agree that using one's accounts AND multi-clienting to plant a ghost in order to conduct risk-free recon is not only sad and pathetic, but an exploit of Derrick's generous policies.

This should be enough to warrant having something done.

As i explained in an earlier post, just because it was possible to do during the Era does not mean that it is an era accurate 'feature' that must or even should be replicated here.

[alatar]

please close this topic

[Pristiq]

I agree with alatar. Derrick needs to state his opinion and close the topic.

[Pro]

After a day solo pking i sort of see no reason to ghost considering everyone and their mum has a razor recall macro which 1/2 times will save them straight off the bat, afteral you are coming in from a screen away and spell range is only 10 tiles that gives them a good 1-2 seconds to hit their recall key and be gone.

[Duke Jones]

I agree with alatar. Derrick needs to state his opinion and close the topic.

I agree as well. We can spend an eternity debating and reasoning. What we need is an official word from Derrick, after he takes some time to reflect and consider all aspects of ghosting and it's impact on the game and community.

[Hicha]

Ghosting has clearly gotten out of control! People are even beginning to ghost camp houses!

ghosting.jpg (36.76 KiB) Viewed 2074 times

[Derrick]

I don't see any way to do anything about this that does not alter other aspects of era game-play. Running around as a ghost watching people was part of era, and really UO as a whole. Taking that away because less than a handful of players are camping spots I don't think is reasonable. Moving ghosts out of dungeons is a free ride out of dungeons for 95% of the players that would be effected by it.

I don't want to get into point by point on this, but nothing is really leaping out at me as a good and mechanically consistent solution.